Win7Mac | # 231 | 2014-12-30, 13:22 | Report

Well, that's wrong again. Maemo Community is defined as all users of maemo.org.
Electorate in Council election rules is defined as those having an account for over 3 months, and with a Karma of 10 or above. And that remained untouched in MC eV regulations.
With all the personal attacks, uninformed, misleading statements and constant ranting about all aspects of the eV, it's more than obvious that it's all just poor attempts to discredit the eV in general. Berserker-style. Always been like that from the start. No intention to promote the association apparent, no constructive input from joergs' side when the time was right. Now it's basically too late for fundamental changes. We have to make the best out of what's there. And that's not bad at all.
Just because Mr. Knowitall doesn't get it or thinks it should all stay as it been at Nokia times doesn't make it right.
I guess nobody doubts that these pages need some decent rework:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/FAQ
In our organizational structure, some adjustment is nescessary to honor the circumstance that we're self-organized since Nokia left. Some adjustment is nescessary to adopt to the law for associations in Germany. And some adjustment is nescessary to assure we will have a chance to see some candidates for Board.

www.rzr.online.fr | # 232 | 2014-12-30, 21:13 | Report

Since the vote system started , there is no possibility to remove you from candidates without canceling the election and that's something current council would like to avoid..

Because you're still part of the candidates, so it would be annoying if you get elected and not willing to be part of council ...

So hurry up to do anything you can to loose as much votes as you can

Please edit your section at :

http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Coun...rations#pichlo

And send an email to the mailing list ...


Please contact me if I can help to sort out this situation...

pichlo | # 233 | 2014-12-30, 21:25 | Report

Yes, sir. I have updated the wiki and I see that so did you. Thanks for that. I will try the mailing list too but with only a Jolla to hand during the festive leriod, this is not an easy task.

Sorry about being awkward but perhaps better now than after getting myself elected.

www.rzr.online.fr | # 234 | 2014-12-30, 21:47 | Report

thanks , let's hope the result will match your will else we will try to find the best option to sort out this situation ...

Regards

ps: you can edit your "status" on your TMO signature by clicking on :

http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature

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Last edited by www.rzr.online.fr; 2014-12-30 at 22:08.

Wikiwide | # 235 | 2014-12-31, 04:21 | Report

Quick reply...

This mention of "club", especially with "golf club" as an example, gives me all the stronger incentive to keep the Council. Because I have personally experienced how golfers, at the grounds of golf club, are intolerant of any pedestrians walking by - or, at least, angry at them.

Even though their golf-club-grounds are the shortest way to the nature reserve, the golfers ask the pedestrians to either not walk at golf-club-grounds at all (that would mean going the long way, along the dusty noisy car roads), or walk near the edges of the cliff. At the same time, golfers can walk anywhere, though they are just as vulnerable to a random strike of golf-ball - maybe, just a tiny bit more knowledgeable-observant, but still as vulnerable.

Hence, I am wary of the proposition that sites of *.maemo.org should be ruled by e.V., where GA is _not equal_ to *.maemo.org community at large.

I'm just happy that local city Council has the power to get the pedestrian-bicycle path through the golf-club, and intends to do so within the next year - if I heard the rumors right.

Hopefully, there will be plenty of e.V. members and Board candidates, by the time Board election begins.

Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

chainsawbike | # 236 | 2014-12-31, 05:59 | Report

you would be a golfer not a random pedestrian as you have an account on *.M.O
the random pedestrian in this analogy is someone browsing the site but does not have an account.


i believe your fear of the board not acting in the interest of the community is mis-placed - they are also voted in, there are by-laws stating that if they are mis-behaving the active e.V members can kick them ( as far as i know we CANNOT do that for council members ) and there is nothing stopping you becoming an active member (AFAIK the board has no way to decline a valid request to become an active member, and you can only be removed under very limited circumstances - read they bylaws for the specifics if you are concerned )
At the moment you are a passive member.

Wikiwide | # 237 | 2014-12-31, 11:35 | Report

Quick reply...

I would say that in this analogy "golf-club" is e.V., "golfers" are "active members", "pedestrians living here" are community (and elect city council), "tourists from afar" are anonymous guests.

But, I will not insist on the applicability of this analogy, because, as you pointed out:
1. members of e.V. do not have to pay fees;
2. Board has no way to decline a valid request to become an active member.

Parts of the problem (imho) are:
1. e.V. is, so far, too small - more active members needed, and that should somehow be _representative_ sample of the community;
Time is needed, as well as attention of passive members, to hopefully get e.V. to be large enough.
2. Board is also too small, so far. Council has to be 5-member, at least; but even Council is 3-member, at this moment; and board is currently 2-member?

Board: three or more natural persons at least 21 years of age.
Board shall designate a chair and two Deputy Directors. Any two of these three Board members together are authorized to fully represent the association.
Board executes the Council's and General Assembly's rulings...

In short: I have no reason to not trust the Board, but eV is not going to be representative of community on the whole with current rate of 'recruitment' of active members. They are already suffering paper backlog (that's holidays, but applicants will also be much more active after holidays - hopefully), without taking on Council duties; we shouldn't be expecting the Board to take over Council duties, too.

By the way, did anybody notice that "active members" are expected to meet and speak and discuss agenda of the meeting? ;-) That's why they are called "active members" :-)

General Assembly is called once per year by the Council... General Assembly is presided by the Council or a deputy...
General Assembly has to be called as well if it is mandated by the association's interests , or if at least one third of the active members request so... giving its purpose and reasons...
General Assembly... is accepted as able to make decisions if at least one third of the active members are present...

In parallel:
Passive Members' Meeting is called twice per year by the Council... presided by the Council or a deputy...
Passive Members' Meeting has to be called as well if it is mandated by the association's interests or if requested by single majority vote of the Council and written purpose and reason are given...
Passive Members' Meeting... is accepted as able to make decisions if at least 10 passive association members are present...

In short: Council duties are not something to pass on to Board, as if the duties were light as a feather. I find a certain beauty in the intertwining net of passive-active members, Board and Council. Reducing it to something smaller would have been "too simple".

And, apologies for not attending the latest Council meeting: for me it was early morning of the troublesome day that is New Year's Eve.

[I'm not getting enough sleep as it is, and New Year's celebrations mean additional loss of sleep... Well, at least, there's something to remember: fireworks. But I expect Gandalf would have made them much better than the common mushrooms of random colors...]

Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

joerg_rw | # 238 | 2014-12-31, 11:44 | Report

There is no such small body - the board itself is that small body with all the power, and it's NOT elected by The Maemo Community.
Unless of course you talk about those 2 dozen members of GA, which are the real elite and have real power even over board.

And when you think the bylaws and legal laws enforce proper behavior of board *and* GA, then you're probably terribly mistaken. Pretty please prove me wrong, since that's *exactly* what I push for: bylaws that enforce e.V. to act in best interest of community. What is best interest of community? Simple: what majority of garage.maemo.org members want - unless it's illegal or simply cannot get done (pink ponies, force Jolla to build a maemo device).

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-12-31 at 11:51.

joerg_rw | # 239 | 2014-12-31, 12:13 | Report

AAh yes, ranting, misinformed statements, personal insults and attacks, that's clearly YOUR domain as you prove the very next sentence in same post. So is it actually YOU who want to discredit your own baby, the e.V. (though I take the blame to have pushed you into that once, when I thought you maybe were capable to pull that off) ?
Now it's basically too late? Fine, then you epically failed on the task to implement an alternative for the working and well-defined HiFo. My input on that was *before* you started with the whole e.V.. I clearly told you where the problems are and what pitfalls to watch out for. You ignored me. Instead you continued to pester me when I told you I can't spare a 10h per week for private IRC queries with you, and you publicly called me names. Now you bash me for the same issue that been 100% YOUR fault.
[CITATION NEEDED] I know at least THREE people who dare to doubt that your above statement is true, which in retrun turns your statement into a false assumption based on... ??? Nothing. And btw community been on their own long time *before* you invented that e.V., and it worked. So where from comes that urgent need to "rework pages" that been decided upon in a proper community referendum?
Incorrect, see above. community is on their own long before "Nokia left" - actually probably since before you joined and so you don't know.
Only when your primary goal is to forcefeed the e.V to community in in its unchanged half-messedup current form. Just *think* for *one second* "what if we would start all over again and completely discard the e.V.?". Would Maemo community die? NO! Could HiFo continue to exist in an unchanged form? Definitely! Is the e.V. a better alternative to HiFo? I can't see how it would be better, with all the mess you introduced.

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2014-12-31 at 12:22.

joerg_rw | # 240 | 2014-12-31, 12:35 | Report

Both seems to be not exactly true, which been points I started to strongly question in that e.V. bylaws. It's the core problem that the e.V. can do whatever GA decides and is NOT obliged to listen to The Maemo Community (which win7mac happily bashes *me* to have a wrong definition when I generalize "Community==Electorate", but one line later *he* redefines community as being a handful elitist members of an arbitrary e.V. I feel reminded on some territorial annexation we recently seen, and the plot it been done by and justification given for it)