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P@t is offline P@t
2015-07-07 , 16:14
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#31
I am not reading Finnish but seems that Tomi Pienimäki is going to Vincit, according to http://www.epressi.com/tiedotteet/ta...ippariksi.html
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-07-07 , 16:16
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#32
Originally Posted by ThomasAH View Post
...I don't understand what everybody is talking about saying Jolla can no longer fund hardware manufacturing... Haven't Jolla setup and finished a incredibly succesful crowdfunding campaign, reeling in more than $2,5M (which, supposedly, is 480% of the goal and according to Jolla themselves "the most funded Indiegogo campaign ever in Asia and Europe!")?
Honestly, I don't think $2.5 million is quite enough these days to design and produce a truly successful mobile device, even if you don't spend any money at all on software development. The big companies are certainly spending much, much more than that on hardware R&D. (And yeah, just a single point of failure, such as we are seeing with the tablet display, can completely derail a project run on this small amount of money. You just can't afford to test lots of prototypes with lots of different combinations of parts from different suppliers...)
 

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NokiaFanatic is offline NokiaFanatic
2015-07-07 , 16:19
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#33
It's simplistic because Jolla is a real company that has to maintain offices, a corporate structure and pay 150 employees. To just keep the show on the road, I reckon Jolla would want to be making a gross profit of at very least €10M a year. As it stands, Jolla is selling maybe 10-20k devices a year. Assuming an equally unrealistic gross margin of €100 a device, you're looking at a gross profit of €2M tops. At very least, Jolla would want to start selling 5x what it has been. While I understand that Jolla are still basically a start-up, there are no signs that the hardware division is anywhere near to turning things around.
 

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ThomasAH is offline ThomasAH
2015-07-07 , 16:27
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#34
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Honestly, I don't think $2.5 million is quite enough these days to design and produce a truly successful mobile device, even if you don't spend any money at all on software development. The big companies are certainly spending much, much more than that on hardware R&D. (And yeah, just a single point of failure, such as we are seeing with the tablet display, can completely derail a project run on this small amount of money. You just can't afford to test lots of prototypes with lots of different combinations of parts from different suppliers...)
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
It's simplistic because Jolla is a real company that has to maintain offices, a corporate structure and pay 150 employees. To just keep the show on the road, I reckon Jolla would want to be making a gross profit of at very least €10M a year. As it stands, Jolla is selling maybe 10-20k devices a year. Assuming an equally unrealistic gross margin of €100 a device, you're looking at a gross profit of €2M tops. At very least, Jolla would want to start selling 5x what it has been. While I understand that Jolla are still basically a start-up, there are no signs that the hardware division is anywhere near to turning things around.
If those are the facts I can of course fully respect that... but my immediate thought is: shouldn't they simply have set the goal higher with the campaign then? Also, regarding the maintenance costs as a company, isn't that why they are now setting up a licensing scheme for Sailfish?

My point is, I would love if it Jolla kept both the software and hardware development 'in-house'. In my opinion, it ensures quality control for devices to meet European standards, enables Jolla to really adjust software to hardware and vica versa, and paves the road for Jolla to grow into a strong brand
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2015-07-07 , 16:42
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#35
http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/07/mob...er-of-business
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/07/jolla-splits-in-two/
There's been several more write-ups in the last few hrs, just some of the main ones; the 1st article is the most detailed one I've seen.
Last edited by jalyst; 2015-07-07 at 19:45.
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-07-07 , 16:42
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#36
Originally Posted by ThomasAH View Post
If those are the facts I can of course fully respect that... but my immediate thought is: shouldn't they simply have set the goal higher with the campaign then?
I don't think selling tablets was the point of their campaign; it's more like, they suddenly had the opportunity to throw Jolla on some tablets (using financial help from Intel), and set up the campaign to drive more interest in Jolla.

Also, regarding the maintenance costs as a company, isn't that why they are now setting up a licensing scheme for Sailfish?
I'm pretty sure that's backwards... Jolla was created as a company to license Sailfish; selling their own hardware was, I think, just a way to show HW manufacturers what a Jolla device would look like. Basically, this is the Google concept; Google wants to make money licensing Android (and through advertising); the point of their Nexus devices has never been to make money, but rather to show off the OS to potential licensees.

My point is, I would love if it Jolla kept both the software and hardware development 'in-house'. In my opinion, it ensures quality control for devices to meet European standards, enables Jolla to really adjust software to hardware and vica versa, and paves the road for Jolla to grow into a strong brand
Well, that's the Apple concept, and it has certainly worked for them. Indeed, there are many advantages to keeping both software and hardware in-house. But that would kind of negate all the work Jolla has done to date in trying to court partnerships with other hardware manufacturers.
 

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JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2015-07-07 , 17:01
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#37
Another thing is that having a company dedicated to HW development may also be used to support partners in HW adaptation of their devices, not only designing Jolla branded devices. And there is this thing with devices based on Sailfish Secure. If executed correctly, it may allow some premium on pricing. Hopefully the idea of devices with HW keyboards is not completely forgotten...
 

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billranton is offline billranton
2015-07-07 , 17:05
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#38
Originally Posted by nieldk View Post
Well, that would answer a whole lot of questions already asked in one punch.
You supported us, we dont care about what you do once your beta-device dies.
That, my mate, is a najor roadstopper (for me!)
I'm not sure if you believe they're running off with our money, or should be working on Sailfish for free, but these moves are most probably happening to give Sailfish a chance at surviving the next couple of years. I'm not sure what else you think they can do at this point.
 

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minimos is offline minimos
2015-07-07 , 17:19
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#39
Originally Posted by P@t View Post
I am not reading Finnish but seems that Tomi Pienimäki is going to Vincit, according to http://www.epressi.com/tiedotteet/ta...ippariksi.html
Correct.
I find it curious that Pienimäki doesn't go to replace the current Vincit CEO, but they are going to found a new company in addition to existing Vincit Oy, named Vincit Group Oy, which he will lead.
As I understand the first (and old) one will continue to be a software house, the new one will be more into IT services.
 

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nieldk is offline nieldk
2015-07-07 , 17:32
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#40
Originally Posted by billranton View Post
I'm not sure if you believe they're running off with our money, or should be working on Sailfish for free, but these moves are most probably happening to give Sailfish a chance at surviving the next couple of years. I'm not sure what else you think they can do at this point.
No, thats not what I am saying. I am happy with beta-testing, no worries. But, the lack of support for existing devices that have been shown so far, is ignorant and disrespectfull.
But - I think more will agree once more batteries dies - as an example. Seems most are running at apx 80% of full capacity atm, and some have already died. One owner even had a nasty experience with how Jolla-care handled the situation - basically telling him to buy a new device.
Batteries is just one example. But the situation where a device, for any reason, is required to be shipped to Finland, with all costs thrown at the owner, is also not satisfactory.
I understand - I think - what they are doing right now, and its not all bad, BUT leaving those who helped, financially and developer wise the back is disrespectful and illoyal.
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