Copernicus | # 371 | 2015-09-15, 21:50 | Report

Ok, ok, stop right there. If you really want to contribute to Sailfish, you can (a) become a developer, or (b) go ahead and invest some money in Jolla. (I don't believe they've gone public yet, but they are running almost entirely on investment capital right now; I suspect they wouldn't turn you away if you've got enough money to make a difference.)

Copernicus | # 372 | 2015-09-15, 21:55 | Report

Very true! So, let me ask again -- why Sailfish? Why not Nemo? (I'm pretty sure Nemo hits all the items on your checklist that Sailfish misses...)

pichlo | # 373 | 2015-09-15, 21:58 | Report

Except one: there is no device available running it

(Aren't we a bit OT, BTW? )

Copernicus | # 374 | 2015-09-15, 22:04 | Report

Ah, by "reimplementing half the OS", would you mean "having to do the same amount of work on a GUI that Jolla has invested millions of dollars of seed capital and several years of dozens of programmer's lives to implement"?

It just seems a little off, I think, to demand that Jolla just give away all that work. Especially as their GUI is more or less what they are hanging their entire business model on...

MartinK | # 375 | 2015-09-15, 22:07 | Report

After FOSDEM I've tried to get Nemo running in a VM to check how modRana and Universal Components look running on it. I've been able to get some sort or GUI running in the VM but even the help of the main Nemo developers via IRC we have not been able to make it register mouse input...

I haven tried since and the situation might have improved since then, but lets imagine that Nemo had all the closed source Sailfish OS (minus the theme and without the Sailfish/Silica/Jolla branding) and could actually use their limited resources to improve it and fix existing issues, thus improving both.

Not having to fight such basic issues such as registering mouse/touch input while having to develop sour own widget set, email application, messaging UI, homescreen, PIM, etc...

Copernicus | # 376 | 2015-09-15, 22:14 | Report

Yeah, this is pretty much my biggest sticking point with Nemo right now. Of course, I think the way that Jolla solved that problem was to avoid going totally open-source. Examples of Red Hat and Ubuntu are great, but I'm just not seeing them break into the mobile device world. (And I'm kinda worried that Microsoft and Apple are slowly eating their closed-source way back into the desktop realm...) But now I'm even more:

Sorry! Yeah, I think I've gone entirely off the rails here. I'm just kinda irritated at all the complaints about Jolla's lack of open source, when nobody seems to give the time of day to the existing open source options.

Copernicus | # 377 | 2015-09-15, 22:33 | Report

Yes, exactly. If the Nemo folks had purchased the closed-source licenses to the various hardware devices they are targeting, they wouldn't need to muck around trying to reverse-engineer everything. And that _would_ have allowed them to get up and running a lot more quickly.

And this is basically the route Jolla took.

I'm just saying, it feels really wrong to dump Nemo under the bus and demand Sailfish go fully open, when the one of the reasons Sailfish seems to be so far ahead of Nemo today is because Jolla chose not to go fully open...

bluefoot | # 378 | 2015-09-15, 22:53 | Report

The GUI is probably worthless for all intents and purposes. It's extremely limited and halfbaked, and its supposed USP (gestures) is done far better, more comprehensively and with vastly more configurability by numerous FREE Android launchers and ROMs. Android's basic UX is that of the entirely open source AOSP. All the primary Linux GUIs are open source and free. What on earth makes you think Jolla can mimic MS or Apple? Expecting people to pay for the GUI is hubris of the worst kind.

GUI is what they're hanging their business model on? Really? Given the above, not much of a business ... and they've had no business so far. Their biggest issue is that they've been trying to sell a product from day one, but they still barely have a product after all this time. Management seem to have been in a state of total denial.

Copernicus | # 379 | 2015-09-15, 23:11 | Report

Ok, fine. Sounds like Jolla is doomed. So... if I may ask, why are you here? There are plenty of alternatives to Sailfish out there. What makes you interested enough in this doomed, worthless, crappy product to waste your time talking about it on this forum board?

itdoesntmatt | # 380 | 2015-09-15, 23:20 | Report

i agree with Copernicus. rememeber however that redhat is the exception that confirms rule,not the rule...how many oss companies failed with that aim? lets be honest,we cant blame someone if he decide not to risk betting on a way wich is difficult and so much rarely viable. ( applause to red hat however).its matter of choice..and maybe i would have made similar..but now i am wondering if its so difficult to set a ui for nemo,or supporting that project instead/both with sailfish os. everyone have to choose...