ste-phan | # 841 | 2015-09-20, 19:09 | Report

Having been a Sailfish user for close to 2 years I know pretty well what makes me happy.

(looks at Jolla with old summer 2014 Tahkalampi that starts its native apps just a tad faster than my 2.0 preview, doesn't close music streaming apps and has powerful, double swipe cover actions)

vistaus | # 842 | 2015-09-20, 19:10 | Report

Mini-Windows 8 feeling? You mean BB10 feeling? BB10 has the same covers as SOS but without cover actions.

itdoesntmatt | # 843 | 2015-09-20, 19:45 | Report

so if without cover action ,seems like live tiles.

ste-phan | # 844 | 2015-09-20, 20:11 | Report

Sorry my bad word choice, I meant to refer to the unsolicited removal of start menu in Windows 8.0, a start menu not really needed to run but already too long time embedded in the habit of loyal users to go unnoticed..

For example the phone app had a dial action and a go to address book action. (swipe left or right)
Thanks to 2.0 single actions I now even have a hard time recognizing my phone app.
Shortcuts for 4 favorites gone doesn't help either...

Now it's decided, I would like to downgrade to pre-2.0 for my daily driver.

gerbick | # 845 | 2015-09-21, 04:15 | Report

Good for you. Now please read what I said... guys. That's more than one.

And sadly, for Jolla to exist, they'll need more sales than the core provides right now. Thus, these refinements.

You're not happy? Didn't know. But since you quoted me; I'll do the same back to you.

Why do you think those things were removed? Or why do you think that trying to widen the audience is such a bad thing? I've seen BB10, Windows 8 and all kinds of incoherent ******** thrown about, but in the end, these changes happened for reasons.

Usually reasons that have seemingly grown past your likes/dislikes. Now, what will you do about it? Protest? Point out the changes ad nauseum? Or just take umbrage whenever a simple statement comes about that counters your stance and opinion?

Too bad there's a serious lack of native apps that were really compelling in their initial form. And with overlapping gestures, not sure that would be the way to go forward.

I am, however, sure that a good compromise is possible. But until then, I remain with my statement: nothing will make you guys happy it seems.

I'm still just sitting here, waiting on my tablet to arrive.

mosen | # 846 | 2015-09-21, 08:25 | Report

That is a good thing imho.
on the contrary, there are enough place on the internet where everything companies do is hyped unquestioned.

What i have grown to love about TMO is the high level of criticism and people not hiding opinions.
At first i was drawn away from certain harsh critics posted here that often seemed "overreacted" and sometimes question the whole idea of Sailfish/commercial-Jolla from my POV.

As a relative newbe here i can only thank you all for providing a broad view on things and beg you to not hold back any critics or views, espacially if it looks like hurting the "status quo".

I am totally sure Jolla staff is reading here just like on TJC and takes what is brought up here with a proper amount of TMO-Salt.

The only thing to fear from that is people like filip linking here, ripping statements out of context...

itdoesntmatt | # 847 | 2015-09-21, 08:51 | Report

mosen u are right, they confirmed it to me on a tweet

ste-phan | # 848 | 2015-09-21, 10:21 | Report

Sure, read that, and feeling addressed I am answering however not pretending to speak for the group.

Real refinements should happen under the hood and those refinements are the ones that will generate sales when performance and feature completeness are top notch out of the box.

A lot of effort went into the fine tuning of the Android sub system while they should be working to encourage not using Android at all (except for niche software)

Examples for need of refinement:

1) a basic functionality on every phone is to right click new called / missed call tel number in call history:

My old Sailfish phone app: call duration / send message / save as contact / delete

My new Sailfish 2.0 phone app: call duration / call (extra option:=refinement) / send message / copy / delete

Where is save as contact?

2nd Example:

The native Sailfish gallery with pictures in thumbnail mode offers a pull down menu with 1 option: "Select Pictures". Sounds promising doesn't it? Let's get productive with some batch action.
Then you start selecting pictures only to notice that the only 1 option available is: a trash can icon. How the..?


-> However when you click to focus on a single picture, there you are given options to mms, BT, share to 3rd party application like Jockr (Flickr). Normal expected functionality here.

-> In the email app you can select many pictures from gallery to email at once..

So it is possible to do stuff with more than one picture you select.

All in all a very inconsistent experience to say at least. It makes it hard to sell Sailfish as in "give it a week and you'll love it".
I have to be honest, after a year of usage I am still walking (swiping) into these "dead ends"

Jolla's developers should be using their Jolla phones more critically in real life instead of "studying" iPhones / Androids.

Being different is not enough when logical work flow is interrupted at many critical places and the new user is finally using Sailfish to launch his Android applications.

It needs to feel more intuitive and logical yet familiar at the same time.

Still waiting for refinement much more than a tablet its painful to see see much work going into adopting the basic interface in order to lower the learning curve for Android users all while ditching smart interface design concepts unneeded - cover swipe actions and event carousel are compatible - and still while displaying frighteningly high skills of creating inconsistent flow

example: 4 favorite apps row home screen teaser - how to reach them conveniently?!

For the above remarks about favorites, you need to be a Sailfish user to see this for yourself and surprise yourself : what were they thinking? I would feel more comfortable if this was clearly flagged "work in progress, will be completed in release" now. Somebody?

So far there is some refinement but with too little attention for enhancing the native Sailfish user experience and sadly I start to notice the first stains of pissing in the pants to stay warm in winter.



Dropping basic functionality like cover swipe actions sounds like a game of panic football not so much reason.

Some say it was needed for allowing the new carousel design, but it isn't if you compromise to not swipe from center of the display but only from the borders.

Unlinke MS Win 8.0, Jolla has not time and money to try and see what will sell this year.

But I agree, changes do in many cases sell better than refinements.

Take something already good that doesn't sell, go change this or that even not for the better, then call it "new and improved" and relaunch it.

There is one of the reasons for many of the changes marketed as refreshed interface.

Take umbrage, (thanks for the new vocabulary), then vote on together.jolla.com I am an early investor / backer. Not a potential sub 10K Rupee Intex "Aqua Fish" user that will be presented with a device that comes cheaper in purchase at the cost of forced compromise to a "complicated" interface that luckily also runs favorite Android apps.



If they don't give up on refining those native apps , complete their functionality and open the door for application makers to integrate popular communication protocols seamlessly and keep them up to even after Jolla is gone , that seems like the way forward.

I'd like to see a Sailfish phone / device that is not an empty shell w/o app store / internet connection in 3 years.

If there is a serious lack of something (like need for another OS) you can also compensate it with ideology.
Fairphone with their modular phone concept seems like a good partner for Jolla that should have nothing against allowing multi boot Android / Sailfish / other OS. How far are the talks and how fair is Sailfish compared to Google's OS?

Jolla already was the compromise. I wasn't expecting happiness out of the box, but now it is taking longer than expected.

I understand that they have decided to release something and intended to finish it later, but to many usability / security options are still needed to be implemented and fine-tuned in order to make people want and love native Sailfish.

Changing interface concepts for every commercial prospect and "fix" lack of native app functionality by offering superb Android support is not bringing Sailfish up front the agenda of the mobile world.

1) stay away from major interface "refinements" 2) include basic functionality to get rid of necessity "wait for somebody to write app / patch " 3) enhance security options 4) try to partner with high end hardware maker

When you get it, please torture the hell out of it and post feedback on together.jolla.com when you have time.

JulmaHerra | # 849 | 2015-09-21, 12:07 | Report

Real refinements cannot be restricted on UI or under the hood only. Average user doesn't give flying duck if there were gazillion improvements and features under the hood if learning curve to use them is too steep. Simplifying the UI eases the adoption of new (for average user) UI paradigm, even if some tricks have to be sacrificed because of it. Personally I like the new UI, it feels more polished, non-stuttering and consistent than the previous one, even if I had some reservations about it before the early adopter release. Just remembering the feature set of old Symbian phones... and how awkward it was to use at times.

Now, UI and Android support have been in the center of development because those are needed for the Tablet - Android apps ease the adoption by bridging the app-gap to other platforms and it needs to work out of the box. If it's as unstable and lacking as it were in the launch of the phone, it will be an utter, complete disaster. So, it's understandable that they have been given priority at this stage of development. Unfortunately it has been the trade off using different type of SoC in Tablet.

ste-phan | # 850 | 2015-09-21, 13:05 | Report

Agree this version's interface feels very smooth as in "less graphic stuttering" when scrolling icons.
Android applications run very well and stable.
But I never have experienced so much general lag once several programs are open concurrently than with this version.

Of course we may expect the tablet with double RAM to run everything much faster.