So, if it is necessary to re-invent the wheel with each iteration, how can progress ever be made? Are we really expected to periodically return to a state where basic features like copy/paste are missing?

The problem is the 'not invented here' mentality that seems to be prevalent these days. Inventing your own wheel means it's easier to control it.

Partially true, Jolla was founded by people who worked with Harmattan, however, they were not the only ones who did. It's really not like the whole Harmattan-team decided to form Jolla and create Sailfish from open parts of MeeGo. Resources that were available at Nokia were also very different.

Some may be done that way, some have evolved since and have to be implemented again. Also, some parts are controlled by 3rd parties and may contain requirements that Jolla is not willing to meet (ie. privacy), which kind of limits what they can do about it. Anyway, there's still much to be done and I do hope that the split between SW and HW-companies improve things on that part.

I believe this to hold true only if your platform is actually viable, that is, created to be adaptable.
Now, the question is, is SFOS such a platform? It appears to me that this "let's keep it flexible and simple" (very common in UNIX systems overall and definitely not a bad idea) is kind of the opposite of what Mr Jobs has done with iPhone; who knew what they wanted (and needed) and focussed on it by providing for example high-level, easy to use API's for developers for basically everything.

Apple had some serious restrictions what you could do with their API:s. There's no reason why Sailfish per se couldn't be adaptable, but Jolla does has some restrictions in their store, which IMO is something that should be addressed with high priority (as should proper support for paid-for apps in store and general support for more APIs). We don't know why, but my guess is that they need to develop better tools to check and QA apps that are to be delivered there. As privacy is one of the important things to the Sailfish-platform, they cannot afford to let through an app that doesn't conform to their idea of privacy (like Apple didn't want anything that didn't fit their platform properly or that was direct competitor to apps/services they provided by themselves). Is Sailfish viable? That remains to be seen. But it needs to attract support from manufacturers, without it there's no way it can live in the long run. Which means, at times it may have to go against the will and priorities of the community.

Actually iOS is based on unix and you can get access to system with jailbreak and do a lot of interesting stuff. For example one of the really popular TMO users added support for android wearables for iPhone before it was released officially by Google :P

And if you say that he publish app to Stroe, you should remember that there are a lot of API limitations for Sailfish store even with available APIs :P

As of paid apps, there is huge thread on TJC that is few years old and was started by Jolla about paid apps, but as it get activity Jolla ignored it and any questions(again they started this thread, which is ironical). And after a huge noise from community on TJC/IRC/here/twitter they finally answered with "more info soon (c)" reply, as always

I think the paid app is one of the greates examples why I'm skeptical about Jolla for a long time. You can call me troll or that I'm bashing, but there are more than enough reasons for that, additionally there are certain patterns of them handling problems and using contradictionary PR(about how they are about openness but actually no info and only covering the problems).

Yep and by jailbraking you are excluding yourself from all the support from Apple when things go sour, possibly even get yourself banned from AppStore because of it. They also have been working steadily to make it more difficult.

Um... didn't I just mention API-restrictions in Jolla store? Didn't I just say it should be addressed in high priority?

Usually when persons output is ~100% negativity, doom and gloom, there is enough reason to call it bashing you know...

I just wanted to say thank you, to all who have posted in this thread, I agree with some things people post, I disagree with a lot more, but either way they are mostly quality, well thought out, informative,intelligent posts, and well worth reading (not including mine of course)

Its keeping me interested until my Tablet does finally arrive - im sure it will, just not sure when. This year, next year?

The "water" posts had me in stitches.

No. Thank you. The pleasure is all mine.

My favourite quote from the whole entirety of TJC: paid app support got confirmed as urgent goal for store since over a year. The poster clearly did not see any contradiction in that statement. It required a follow-up post to point out that "urgent goal" and "over a year" seem to be at odds with each other.

That post was made in January 2015, which means the paid apps support must have been an urgent goal for nearly two years now.

We've been though this. One person's "100% negativity" is another person's "objective view". And vice versa.

The biggest lessons to be learned from the F-35 project are still largely in the making while the software is under development to match the hardware’s theoretical capabilities as well as future war scenario’s (also in the making) all currently ongoing air operations are nothing an F-16 would not handle.

The lessons from the F-35 have been learned and proven vallid in the past by Nokia and they failed. Complete your features and don’t stay hanging forever on step 4/5 tills somebody exploits your primary weakness that you were not believing in your chosen direction enough to ever finish the job or simple conclude there is no market for your product and you are unable to create demand. (unlike the makers of the F-35)

Wish you'd stayed with the usual car comparison instead but there are indeed still parallels to be drawn with mobile.

A platform a mobile phone like Jolla you still need engine (mobile data and telephone carrier) , air frame (body that can be held to telephone call), basic analogue instruments and landing gear (display, sound devices, input and offline usability). The detection, deflection systems and weapons or load out are the so called apps. Their type varies based on the usage scenario.
One indispensable traditional feature would be the on board cannon.

F-35 reportedly couldn’t fire it till 2019 because of software. But should be ok as it is a small traditional user base that is crying out for it.

Looks a lot like Jolla thinking to get away with ignoring the users would ever need / appreciate a telephone with call history, address book with groups, SIP,.. from the start. But you have apps, Android apps, you can run your favourite Android apps! And a new, refreshed interface. Sorry, but not good enough two years later.

All will be fine in time when software gets implemented sooner, later or never because if we wait long enough requirements eventually change (cancelled global roaming tariffs would SMS counters financially irrelevant).

That F$#$%-35 is another example of a "we know best what the user needs" project.

It enjoys almost guaranteed sales success through combined lobbying, unlimited tax payer sponsorship and media controlled (down to the news app filled Android device) market eco systems like for example client countries forced into and seeking compliance to new "NATO standard".
As F-16’s still suffice for bombing the usual low tech country with outdated air defences it counts on future usage scenario's in the form of artificially created threats (demands) through global, behind the scenes media warmongering and weaponising efforts (RU is putting its country near to our bases, and see how evil IS' spread can't be stopped with our current and ready super advanced tech etc. etc..).

And if the actual average deployment scenario for this software dependant fighter jet project would turn out not to be exactly the one envisioned by the seller, or simply threaten the economic interests of the sellers’ home country then for certain the on / off switch still remains the seller's option to discharge the situation in his advantage.

Thus the seller retains the possibility for rendering expensive hardware and software -unless thoroughly hacked- useless or obsolete to the buyer, if not ultimately turning itself to attack the buyer. Controlled obsolescence will do its work and it will be time to purchase the next version. Lessons still to be learned.


This forum seems to combine voices about the most critical end-users and the most knowledgeable managers that know exactly how a global company is run and how to please investors while throwing out the minimal required bits to the end users to keep alive the hunger for more.

This large business picture is a great and entertaining way to feed discussions while waiting for a tipping point where our favourite OS becomes self proliferating.

As a user where I needed to assume a very tolerant attitude towards Jolla in the past (2013) with regard to missing basic functionality (groups, SMS character counter, copy&paste, SIP interface, no security interface ..)
IN THE PAST but my patience is running out as Jolla seems not bound to fix the top pages of most voted items anywhere soon.

My Jolla still suffices for phone calling but it is not the best phone I have ever had.
It is however the best phone I have had to surf the web (thanks Mozilla Firefox), but that is just because I refuse to use other platforms that are also very good in just that.
It has good battery life.
It has a cool interface that does not make me mad like Android does but it is not the best interface I have ever used nor is the so called refinement 2.0.
It can record phone calls thanks to low security features. Very useful.

Jolla is still something nice and unique but by no means what I had in mind for the future of mobile in early 2010 when I first touched the N900.
Not that it matters much, I have learned to forgot the past and the expectations of 2010. I compromise with what I have available for direct usage and have learned not to trust tech companies to finish their products.

On a daily basis I forget to look out for this tablet to arrive if it was 2009.

By purchasing that tablet I have chosen to support Jolla in whatever crazy idea they had to come up with that would give them time and funds and a time frame to finish the phone OS.

But now I am wondering if I have helped to give the wrong signal and where a collective “we will not support the indigogo tablet campaign” would have gotten Jolla?

Sailfish could have been at least halfway further to feature completeness and running on Fairphone instead of that tablet.
Now the real work is being left to the community while Jolla is officially supporting Sailfish on a Chinese generic hardware nobody had asked for.

We get it , it is possible and a nice demo, but next time in your free time please.

So now over to the serious matters, feature completeness and combining Sailfish with ultimate smartphone hardware. Now and not in 20 years because unlike defense complexes, Jolla can't shape the world demand to match its offer.

If ever the F-35 sales craziness sparks a hot WWIII before it’s finished, for the time being, my bet will be grabbing a few N900’s for the future computing needs along the road.