tiempjuuh | # 221 | 2015-11-24, 06:06 | Report

Of course fraud is forbidden by law. But this isn't fraud. You decided to invest in a product which, apparently, will never see the light. That's the risk of an investment. You won't see your money back.

Dave999 | # 222 | 2015-11-24, 06:13 | Report

Fraud was when they took them money. It's a legal fraud. Say one thing and do another while taking money and hide behind some 3rd party rules. If not fraud, then it's a lie. What about take money via shop when you know you couldn't deliver even the first tablets? Could be fraud. Or just bad behavior.

Hopefully they tablets shows up eventually, and Jolla can pay lastu and the employees gets rehired and we live happily ever after.

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Last edited by Dave999; 2015-11-24 at 06:38.

pichlo | # 223 | 2015-11-24, 06:47 | Report

More like there is no one in the building to package and ship them.

Although I doubt there are many ready to be shipped. Maybe tens, maximum hundreds. Not thousands. The vast majority has not been produced yet.

gaelic | # 224 | 2015-11-24, 06:55 | Report

You cannot compare crowdfunding with online shopping.
Crowdfunding is not buying a product, it is investing in a company and expecting a product in exchange. Sometimes your investment is lost.

But: Jolla did a very bad job on communication and in my opinion producing a tablet was not the best idea in the first place. Also the decline in lead personnel was a sign since long now that Jolla is declining and now finished as it seems.

nieldk | # 225 | 2015-11-24, 07:20 | Report

As for the crowd funding (which Iam part of) no, that is not Fraud. And I have actually told Jolla I changed my 'order' to donation, not expecting anything, in this round.

But, there was one last round. Where some placed a pre-order. That, is another situation, and, if it can be somewhat proven, even the slightest, that Jolla knew that these would likely not be delivered , that, qualifies as fraud, definitely. Of course, given that money was paid by who orderes,.

billranton | # 226 | 2015-11-24, 08:14 | Report

Given the pattern of pre-order and delays, it's reasonable to assume that the trouble with the next financial round started around September time. The extra pre-ordered were sold to increase the size of the production batches and save costs. These people took a huge risk to try to make Sailfish work - of course they meant to deliver at the time they were sold. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise unless they specifically meant to attack these guys.

Please remember that the alternative to all these claims of fraud is that a bunch of people are on the brink of bankrupcy after having their funding pulled. Everything they've built over the last few years, even a decade for some, could come tumbling down. Imagine how it must feel to see a bunch of your supposed fans rant on the internet about how you always intended to rip them off. Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

If the money does come in, that the tablet deliveries get priority over the refunds mentioned in that last blog post. Tom should have to wait at the back of the queue to get his $242 off George Bailey.

nieldk | # 227 | 2015-11-24, 08:22 | Report

@billranton

I totally agree with you. But facts doesn't change.

My personal stand is, the best way we can help make Jolla get back on its feet's are being supportive. And don't start asking refunds, charge backs etc. Etc.

pichlo | # 228 | 2015-11-24, 08:29 | Report

Indeed. A bank run is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

billranton | # 229 | 2015-11-24, 08:31 | Report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPkJH6BT7dM

endsormeans | # 230 | 2015-11-24, 16:35 | Report

oooh.
ouch.
that is one movie with probably the most desperate bank run depicted.
I love "it's a wonderful life"
watch it every x-mas.
but boy that scene sure depicts a grim historical time.
I'd hope no alternate device company has to go through anything like that.