Youyota Tablet Contact - Page 96 - maemo.org

olf | # 951 | 2017-08-15, 17:37 | Report

Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post

QWERTY phone is a slightly different case, this tablet does not require a lot engineering work upfront. But the "Lauta" project does, and I'm currently support that personally.

Anyone worked in this industry would know the cost of building a modern Qualcomm phone, and we are adding a slider keyboard, the cost is enormous.

But nonetheless I will continue the effort for the keyboard device. If we miss the opportunity now, we might not have a chance anymore to try it. The same with this tablet, if we don't try now we will miss it forever.

Hopefully with the Keyboard device being modern on specs, and by the time less people will hold back because of spam concern, we can make some difference. (I 100% agree we need to achieve more audience rather than request varients.) If it's 1000 units project nothing will come out anymore...

I was disappointed as well, seeing far less than 1000 Youyota tablets ordered. Well, I believe there are a couple of minor factors, which may improve the situation for the Livermorium phone:
- Leave the campaign open for 4 to 6 weeks. Because with the short 2 week campaign for the Youyota tablets, new preorders almost dropped to 0 after the campaign's official end, as most people were not aware one could still order after that. Still there obviously was some remaining demand (questions on TMO, a friend who was on holiday etc.), but presumably most people just shyed away, thinking "Oh, I am too late!".
- Restrict engineering efforts to essential changes, e.g. Keyboard, replaceable battery. Seriously consider things like a multicolor LED only, if they seem to be easy, and drop any of these extra features immediately, if it turns out to be harder (in terms of engineering efforts / risks or parts / production costs) than expected.
- Restrict software engineering to a working, open boot loader and LineageOS / SailfishOS to simply run well. Not all hardware features have to be supported from the start, for such a small series device you can / may have to rely on independent developers ("the community") to implement minor features.
- Explicitly ask people (e.g. here on TMO) to "spread the word" in the internet, when the preorder campaign starts (but not before being able to name a specific opening date for the campaign).
- Set your funding goal accordingly, i.e. at least for ~ 1000 units.
- Most people do understand well, that this is an unique, small series device, which involves high costs. So do not try make it competitive in price to comparable devices (plus < $100 for the keyboard): An extra of $100 to $200 for just being a special, small series phone is somewhat expected (but sure will be a reason to complain for some ;\ )
- Do have the Youyota tablet and the MotoG keyboard delivered, before the Livermorium campaign starts, so more people will trust you(r experience, capabilities etc.).

Look, the development of the Pyra (on Wikipedia) bears some similarities, albeit at a far slower development speed, as they are engineering everything from the ground up (and mostly produce in Europe). It has attracted slightly more than 1000 preorders, despite its high price, and is finally close to delivery (and they have proven this effort to be economically viable by saving / managing to produce the Pandora).

All in all such an enterprise has to be economically viable, otherwise it will fail, unfortunately.
And I would not count on a significant market after an IGG campaign in the first place; you may try that with surplus Youyota tablets, but that needs infrastructure (web shop, distribution, financial transactions etc.).

P.S.: I would expect 1000 to 2000 preorderd Livermorium phones with SailfishOS to be surely attainable, 2500 / 3000 if you / we are lucky.

Edit: You may also consider a keyboard-less variant of it (assuming this is a really easy change) to gain a few more preorders.

BTW, above statements do not imply any criticism of how you proceeded with the Youyota tablet; that was a different situation, as the design was almost fixed, while speed was paramount.

Last edited by olf; 2017-08-26 at 20:53.

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chenliangchen | # 952 | 2017-08-15, 20:14 | Report

@olf Thank you for your suggestion

Regarding your last point, The Livermorium Keyboard Mod will be finalised this month, and we will have an announcement with Motorola. In fact we will be the first (and currently only) mod than comes from Indiegogo. With Motorola's product I think we can get some trust.

The Keyboard device also depends on the slider design on the Mod (which can save us another great amount of cost) so it will be launched after delivery of Moto Mods anyway.

The reason making campaign short is only for delivery date. With a longer campaign period, we can get more funds pledged, but with nearly a month's funds transfer time, it delays our project a lot as I need to rely on those funds for development (for example mouldings, certifications...). The earlier I can get, the quicker I deliver the product. And I do want it to come into reality quickly. It's been nearly 10 years since N900 came out, we have been waiting too long.

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chenliangchen | # 953 | 2017-08-15, 20:19 | Report

Originally Posted by pacman View Post

Are you going to the HK Consumer Electronics fair in October? Maybe you could create some momentum there, possibly even sell some units?

Thank you for the information. Not sure we have time for that. I'm now occupied with the launch and delivery of the Moto Keyboard Mod, and then the keyboard device. I will check with Michael if he can do that.

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DrYak | # 954 | 2017-08-15, 22:20 | Report

Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post

Components settled. Shipping date of current IGG orders is set on 28th Sep. (May vary for a few days in/out.) We will also do the certificates in between.

Yay !!!

(Could you post some pictures as things happen over the next weeks ?)

Regarding the number of backers ( /buyers - see bellow) :
Well, let's see, time will tell.

Maybe, once people notice that the device are actually being built and actually being shipped, other would be less reluctant to (actually) order one of the 1000 first batch, rather that just giving to an uncertain campaign.

In other words : you'd probably have more success with IndieGoGo InDemand or IGG Maketplace once the first few devices arrive at backer's adress than earlier on IGG campaign.

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acrux | # 955 | 2017-08-17, 13:51 | Report

So, if I try to promote Youyota 2-in-1 Tablet to our Linux community, where should I direct people to get more information and possibly to order the tablet?
Still to the IGG page? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/y...-in-1-tablet#/

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chenliangchen | # 956 | 2017-08-17, 14:33 | Report

Originally Posted by acrux View Post

So, if I try to promote Youyota 2-in-1 Tablet to our Linux community, where should I direct people to get more information and possibly to order the tablet?
Still to the IGG page? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/y...-in-1-tablet#/

Thanks for that. Yes.

If you logon into your indiegogo account, you will have your account number in the link to show your referral. We can certainly make some reward if one shows some high number of referrals.

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fridlmue | # 957 | 2017-08-20, 08:22 | Report

Hi chenliangchen,

what me let struggle to order the tablet was:
- I did not find a homepage/website of Youyouta and the Tablet with further, reliable information. What let me trust this project was this thread. But i needed a lot of time to come into the topic. For someone never heard about Sailfish it totally a "skip over" topic at the moment.
- The "Benefits" of this tablet were not communicated that clear.

For me it is:
-> Open Intel Platform with open Bootloader
-> SailfisOS, not Android. (Ok, that was clear)

For all guys in the Linux Desktop Environment and mobile Developers this is the Device to go (IMHO). You should target them!
The KDE, Plasma Mobile, Gnome, UBPorts, openSUSE, Fedora guys. All of them are trying to get there systems ready for touch-devices. But often there are problems porting the stuff to ARM architecture. So a reliable INTEL device is the way to go for them! So be proud of a open platform and show it to the masses.

Perhaps you even could provide all the detailed hardware designed and layouts to the community and host a further development as "open hardware project". So you could offer the production of the tablet to the community which does a part of the further development. I think this would be a great future for this project!

Thanks for your ongoing Investment of money and time in these great projects. :-)

Best regards!

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mosen | # 958 | 2017-08-20, 09:48 | Report

Originally Posted by fridlmue View Post

- The "Benefits" of this tablet were not communicated that clear.

Thank you @fridlmue, Chen needs our help here.
The Tablet is a rolling development with a pure technical starting point (luck finding the original creator).

Everyone can contribute with his opinion on how and whom to market the device to. I offered to compile them into a wrapup if no one does earlier.

Chen could edit the summary into the first post or even use as base for his marketing material.
I would do some fansite based on the canon.
Maybe also the media will show more interest if we tell them why to be excited?!?

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chenliangchen | # 959 | 2017-08-20, 10:44 | Report

To be honest this is not strictly my project, I'm just helping re-manufacturing this device for whom wanted one but couldn't get before.

And I don't have that much time to promote it. It will get produced for as-it-is. I have no time nor resources to make further changes.

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tortoisedoc | # 960 | 2017-08-20, 11:17 | Report

Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post

To be honest this is not strictly my project, I'm just helping re-manufacturing this device for whom wanted one but couldn't get before.

And I don't have that much time to promote it. It will get produced for as-it-is. I have no time nor resources to make further changes.

Just to be clear and out of curiosity;
is this third party a separate entity interested in "finishing what was started", or are you doing it for the community (as in the people here)?

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