Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices - Page 146 - maemo.org

ste-phan | # 1451 | 2017-10-10, 06:56 | Report

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post

What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

A possibility to not have to buy a USA based OS just like in the old days with Symbian still around.
USA have been dominating our area culturally and economically since WOII marshall plan .. Even the cultural diversity you find in several European countries is being reduced compared to decades ago in trade of Starbuckification where every urban place looks the same with people using the same software consuming the same food.
As long as all of our data belongs to them, they will remain able to predict the future and remain one step ahead.

If you can't get off Facebook and Google, Jolla indeed has little to offer but it is a start and most importantly a statement, never mind the details.

Reading above about the OS license linked to the Jolla account not the device it is installed on I had to swallow a few times considering that I figured giving away a 2nd voucher would be easy enough and a good way to promote Sailfish to friends or family.
Is the voucher already locked to one's Jolla acount?

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ste-phan For This Useful Post:
abyzthomas, Amboss, hhbbap, juiceme, mosen, pichlo, santeira

m4r0v3r | # 1452 | 2017-10-10, 09:45 | Report

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post

Eh? What do you mean? You just quoted my post where I suggested one way. There could be others:

Indeed, it has occurred to me too and indeed that might have to be the way to go.

But I do not like the principle. Linux is supposed to be about FREEDOM, right? As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between being tracked by one company and another. If I am to be tracked by Jolla, I may as well go the full way and be tracked by Google and get something in return (millions of apps, a full range of services...). What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

Fair enough other ways seems plausible.

But what are they tracking exactly? That you own SFOS?

As far as your concerned you seem to ignore the subtle nuances of being tracked 24/7 by going and just having a SFOS license vs your account.

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to m4r0v3r For This Useful Post:
Amboss, juiceme, olf, pichlo, santeira, Sthocs

benny1967 | # 1453 | 2017-10-10, 10:20 | Report

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post

when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

I share your concerns about SailfishOS as a whole not being redistributable.

However, I never considered anonymity the main selling point. It might be for you, personally, but each of us is different.

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to benny1967 For This Useful Post:
Amboss, juiceme, pichlo, santeira

Feathers McGraw | # 1454 | 2017-10-10, 10:42 | Report

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post

Linux is supposed to be about FREEDOM, right? As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between being tracked by one company and another. If I am to be tracked by Jolla, I may as well go the full way and be tracked by Google and get something in return (millions of apps, a full range of services...). What do I get from Jolla exactly, when the main selling point - anonymity - goes out of the window?

I hope you are joking - implementing authentication on downloads of some proprietary software that you don't even have to use is not the same as having a company stick a bunch of telemetry on top of everything and scan all of your communications in order to build a profile on you so they can serve you targeted adverts.

Also it's worth remembering that some of the money given to jolla is to support the development of a polished open source hardware adaptation, which can be used anonymously by anyone.

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Feathers McGraw For This Useful Post:
Amboss, chenliangchen, deprecated, hhbbap, jakibaki, juiceme, maximilian1st, santeira, Sthocs

pexi | # 1455 | 2017-10-10, 11:12 | Report

Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post

I hope you are joking - implementing authentication on downloads of some proprietary software that you don't even have to use is not the same as having a company stick a bunch of telemetry on top of everything and scan all of your communications in order to build a profile on you so they can serve you targeted adverts.

Also it's worth remembering that some of the money given to jolla is to support the development of a polished open source hardware adaptation, which can be used anonymously by anyone.

Yep some android software like twitter even record you gyro data among just about everything else.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pexi For This Useful Post:
Amboss, deprecated, Feathers McGraw, juiceme, santeira

pichlo | # 1456 | 2017-10-10, 11:26 | Report

Originally Posted by m4r0v3r View Post

As far as your concerned you seem to ignore the subtle nuances of being tracked 24/7 by going and just having a SFOS license vs your account.

OK, let's say that on a scale from 0 to 100, Google's tracking is 100 and Jolla's is 1. You may see only those absolute values. I say that there is a bigger difference between 0 and 1 than there is between 1 and 100. 100 is only 100 times more than 1 but 1 is an infinity times more than 0.

Or look at it this way. There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge. I do not accuse them of choosing their way deliberately with any evil intent. It was probably the first thing that came to their mind and it seemed "good enough". But it seems that they did not even stop to consider alternatives, which to me gives a clear indication of what their attitude to freedom is.

I do not wish to prolong this discussion more than necessary. You either get my drift or you don't. Either way is fine with me.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post:
Amboss, chenliangchen, eekkelund, juiceme, santeira

kinggo | # 1457 | 2017-10-10, 12:10 | Report

IMO, you are overreacting. A LOT. Because last year I was in UK and in most stores people were asking me for address when I was buying some tools.

Promotional stuff, this that, whatever...... But way worse than this Jolla thingy.

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to kinggo For This Useful Post:
Amboss, chenliangchen, juiceme, santeira

jenix | # 1458 | 2017-10-10, 13:05 | Report

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post

Or look at it this way. There is a tiny difference in effort between doing it the free way (from a company that preaches freedom) and the way they have chosen but the difference between the outcomes, and the message they would thus broadcast to the community, would be huge. I do not accuse them of choosing their way deliberately with any evil intent. It was probably the first thing that came to their mind and it seemed "good enough". But it seems that they did not even stop to consider alternatives, which to me gives a clear indication of what their attitude to freedom is.

Please do keep in mind that Jolla is a small company with very limited resources. Maybe they choose to bind the licence to the Jolla account because it is much easier to implement than any alternative which requires a whole new system? I guess Jolla don't have the resources to assign such task to 4-5 people, giving them a week to come up with a solution - There are probably more important tasks to solve.

I still don't see what the problem is with checking the eligibility to use SFOS X during the install / first boot by logging into the (most likely used anyway) account and then "unlocking" the system. That's about everything that needs to be done to authorize the device, as long as the Jolla account is still connected. I guess you have to trust Jolla to not use that setup to "spy" on you (or collect data). But then again, if they want to do this they probably hide such "features" in the OS itself, independent of the account.
So if you don't trust Jolla to use the account to only validate your SFOS licence, you probably have a hard time using SFOS itself since you can't be certain of its behaviour.

That being said, I honor your beliefs in open systems and the critic that arises from it. Sadly, theoretical principles are not that easy to implement in the real world.

And now, back to the topic and the official SFOS build that we hopefully can download ind install tomorrow.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to jenix For This Useful Post:
Amboss, jakibaki, juiceme, santeira, skvark

r0kk3rz | # 1459 | 2017-10-10, 13:50 | Report

Originally Posted by jenix View Post

Please do keep in mind that Jolla is a small company with very limited resources.

One of these days that excuse is going to wear thin, if they want to play with the big boys then excuses like that won't serve them.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to r0kk3rz For This Useful Post:
Amboss, juiceme, kinggo, MartinK, pichlo

jameson | # 1460 | 2017-10-10, 13:53 | Report

Originally Posted by asa View Post

I'm clearly no expert here so what I'm doing wrong:

08/039/2017 12:39:09 - INFO - Flashtool Version 0.9.23.1 built on 11-01-2017 15:12:00
08/039/2017 12:39:09 - INFO - Executing search strategies to find proxy selector
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - No proxy found for IE. Trying next one
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Strategy firefox failed trying next one : No Firefox installation found
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - No proxy found for java. Trying next one
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Syncing devices from github
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Opening devices repository.
08/039/2017 12:39:10 - INFO - Scanning devices folder for changes.
08/039/2017 12:39:19 - INFO - Pulling changes from github.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Quietly closing devices repository.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Devices sync finished.
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Loading devices database
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Loaded 98 devices
08/039/2017 12:39:20 - INFO - Starting phone detection
08/039/2017 12:39:25 - INFO - Device disconnected
08/040/2017 12:40:02 - INFO - Device connected with USB debugging on
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Connected device : Sony Xperia X
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Installed version of busybox : N/A
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Android version : 7.1.1 / kernel version : 3.10.84-perf-gcb77bab-03149-gfe8d4a8 / Platform : 64bits / Build number : 34.3.A.0.217
08/040/2017 12:40:03 - INFO - Root access denied
08/040/2017 12:40:16 - INFO - Selected Bundle for Sony Xperia X(F5121). FW release : 34.0.A.2.301. Customization : NCB
08/040/2017 12:40:16 - INFO - Preparing files for flashing
08/041/2017 12:41:25 - INFO - Please connect your device into flashmode.
08/041/2017 12:41:58 - INFO - Device disconnected
08/042/2017 12:42:19 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Opening device for R/W
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Reading device information
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Unable to read from phone after having opened it.
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - trying to continue anyway
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Phone ready for flashmode operations.
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Opening TA partition 2
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - Start Flashing
08/042/2017 12:42:20 - INFO - No loader in the bundle. Searching for one
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - INFO - No matching loader found
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - WARN - No loader found or set manually. Skipping loader
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - INFO - Ending flash session
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - ERROR - null
08/042/2017 12:42:34 - ERROR - Error flashing. Aborted
08/042/2017 12:42:35 - INFO - Device connected in flash mode

Connect the device, switched off and pressing the volume down button, before starting flashing and it will go on. Then possibly it will behave as it did to me, aborting flashing because a flash script was missing.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jameson For This Useful Post:
Amboss, juiceme, santeira