tortoisedoc | # 21 | 2018-11-17, 20:51 | Report

A PITA is not the right word. It was more like chewing through a turd each time you had to rebuild. And that happened _every_ _single_ _time_

PS : In all honesty, and with all the respect for Siilasmaa and more pertinently towards the topic, he's not much better as he's trying to portray himself as. He sold all of it to M$ anyways.

endsormeans | # 22 | 2018-11-17, 21:19 | Report

What seems apparent to me after reading and reading and reading ...and then reading some more...
and what we all understand from being on the maemo receiving end of things...
and of course being able to view the issue from outside looking in...

The business execs were doing exactly what they were good at.
Being business execs.
Looking out for their own asses, pushing agendas, enacting internal coups, back biting, back stabbing, starving one another of the ability to focus on issues at hand....
Oh the list goes on.

The author plainly has opened a small window, onto the panorama unfolding, and thinks himself separate from it...but that is the furthest thing from the truth.

They all did well to do everything possible...BUT show solidarity to a vision and stick to it, and work together, and achieve and maintain it.
Else Iphone and Android wouldn't have stood a chance.
And Nokia would still be at the forefront.

They were absolutely perfect executives.

Saturn | # 23 | 2018-11-17, 22:19 | Report

IMHO if Elop had not been there the downfall would be slower and they might had a chance/time to change and keep the market.
There has been plans for more flagships with MAEMO to come out, but Elop cut them off and fired the whole team.

Dave999 | # 24 | 2018-11-17, 22:27 | Report

Not likley. Symbian was too old and maemo/meeego/peego and feego diden’t share an ecosystem. Every phone on it’s own.

They might survived another year or so but the stock value would be just as bad. Bleeding money. Now they had Microsoft to keep the money flow at least.

mscion | # 25 | 2018-11-17, 22:37 | Report

Another thing I would like to understand is why wasn't the n9 sold in the US. At the time I thought it was far better than what Apple had to offer. It still has a better user interface than any android phone out there.

peterleinchen | # 26 | 2018-11-17, 22:49 | Report

You are right.
This is what not I wanted to express. Sorry for my analogy.

I just had in mind the blocking of apps due to store restrictions and qt versions and non-existence of paid apps and ...

peterleinchen | # 27 | 2018-11-17, 22:55 | Report

So this seems like peterleinchen is trying the endsormeans way?

endsormeans | # 28 | 2018-11-18, 00:02 | Report

hahahahahahaha
Far better to over explain anyway Peter...
thorough explanation for the "slow" folks ...helps their digestion...
(and never ever ever ever never ever apologise for an analogy...
Analogies are great and expressive...use them often...)

2 word answers are always interpretation messy...
especially here...

"A Maemo Talk Forum 2-word Answer" ...
is the equivalent of handing an auditorium full of epileptics shotguns, at a party with only strobe lighting....
it just becomes an open turkey-shoot .
(how is that for an analogy?... Can't get that kind of imagery with 2 words...and it of course becomes a mindworm and the imagery is stuck in everyone's head.)

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Last edited by endsormeans; 2018-11-18 at 00:07.

pichlo | # 29 | 2018-11-18, 09:23 | Report

THIS!!!

I am surprised how few people see this. Android may have its own share of design faults, but none nearly as idiotic as this. You can still run an Android 2 application on Android 9. The same, more or less, applies to Windows. But Nokia and now Jolla, in their infinite stupidity, think they know better.

tortoisedoc | # 30 | 2018-11-18, 10:43 | Report

You are implying no ecosystem = no future. But if that'd be true, how comes android made it? And iOS? They didnt happen to have an ecosystem when they started as well. Nokia had Ovi Store, at the time the biggest (symbian-based) ecosystem. All the prerogatives for an ecosystem which would have included Meego devices were there.

Also, keep in mind meego was supposed to have a big rollout, whereas Maemo were all experimental devices.
From my perspective, there's more technical issues here:

a) the skitzophrenic qt / meego split
N9 was hailed by nokia for Qt, *not* meego. But meego was *there*, on the n9, and working just fine! I guess this was the best patch Nokia could come up for the to-be ecosystem solution with symbian (qt "portability"). This confused message disoriented developers quite a bit IMO. Throw in the complexity of the platform api's (a.k.a. linux) on top, the non-native look-and-feel of the Qt Apps vs the native-looking Meego apps, and you have a beautiful disaster. All the tools were there for both worlds (qt & meego). but which one to use? no clear development path or guidelines (cause of marketing reasons as they had to push qt!), no clear toolkit choice. I mean, the phone was sold as a MeeGo Device, but Nokia was pushing the Qt toolkit for it! What a clusterf*ck for God's sake!
Developers had been promised " no more two stacks!" by Nokia, instead they got two toolkits . They were promised "a linux-based device", but in reality they were meant to build Qt-(and aegis) based applications (keep in mind meego was also qt-based)...do you see where this is going?

b) the idiotic rollback of the marketing, by denying the product to be actually shipped in key countries like US. Nokia could have betted more on the UI (which is what the n9 excelled at). Yes, the development experience was flaky, but come on, the first iphone was very limited too! Bottom line they had a product, with a valid UI, which they didnt trust in, and got cold feet. And thinking about point a), no wonder I'd say! It would have taken a leap of faith and a full commitment, but in reality, instead of jumping in the cold and dark waters, Elop stayed on the platform, and burnt down with it.

And about app support/sustainability in Jolla, speak for yourself. At least quickbar has been working fine for many releases now, with no need for updates in quite some time (im surprised myself) - in harbour. I would not be surprised for patches not to work the same way.

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Last edited by tortoisedoc; 2018-11-18 at 11:47.