Sorry, but the argument of cannibalizing sales is weird. That only barely makes sense if you replace "PIM" with "GSM/CDMA phone features" and replace "Nokia" with another cell company. Nokia gets money either way! It wouldn't harm them one bit to add PIM features to their own product.

GPE is very very young as yet. It's only recently improved past a paper calendar. Pimlico is OK, but it looks like there's more momentum behind GPE. I don't want to put my eggs in that basket, in other words.

And yes, I have communicated with GPE developers, bugzilla and all that stuff. Graham is active, and implementing some good changes, though I'm kinda antsy waiting for the week-starts-sunday bug to be fixed...

The tablet needs a PIM. Yep, time to put it in the signature

There is no excuse for not making a good PIM. I hate it when people try to rationalize the tablets not having a PIM. The typical excuses are

-> loss of phone sales
-> too hard to make
-> the tablets are not PDA's
-> there are already 3rd party "good" PIM's
-> there are other more "important" things to do and making a PIM will take time away from them

All of these excuses have been debunked and proven false. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT HAVING A PIM. None. No excuse at all!

Then pay for the project. I'd rather have a good GPS than a PIM.

How do you "prove" that other things are not more important? Or have you "proven" that there's an unlimited amount of developer time available at Nokia?

No, but seldom is a new device worth the initial premium over its predecessor. I have both an N800 and N810, N800 taken over by Ms Sparkling to play solitaire .

I like that the N810 is smaller and more metal than plastic. The N800's D-pad placement was better, but really the tablet needs a scroll wheel. I typically use a stylus to scroll with both devices. For me the hardware keyboard justifies upgrade, because it is practical to use the N810 as a VNC client to spontaneously control my office system. The keyboard design is flawed, I truly hope the next generation will space the keys to improve accuracy, but this one is useable.

The lack of PIM features are not important because I use a Treo 680 as my phone. However, the very weak spreadsheet and word processing applications are a disappointment.

The largest problem is the absence of Java support in the web browser. If Nokia wants to excuse the missing PIM and document processing software by positioning tablets exclusively as mobile internet access devices they need to provide a better internet experience, and that includes JVM in the browser. They can't have it both ways.

To be honest, I don't understand why this hardware was not released in two versions, one Symbian with a full suite of enduser applications, and one Linux.

I'd guess Symbian was thought to not be a great fit (nor readily adaptable) for the high resolution; that's (I assume) why they jumped from S90 on the 7710 to maemo on the 770.

Agreed that Java should be there. Honestly, Java to me is a more essential part of "internet" than Flash. However... it's quite possibly coming soon; Jalimo is, from what I hear, getting pretty good, so it's just a matter of time till someone makes a MicroB plug-in of it. I hope.

Tell you what.....

I brought the n810 for 400 dollars from compusa and took the Assurz add on plan. Which basically let me use the n810 for 90 days within which i can any day return back the n810 for a complete refund. I took that and i like the n810. I will see until the last day and if thye n810 is anywhere nearby... ill return it back and buy the wimax version. That way you dont lose anything.

What you can prove is that the demand for a PIM is constantly being minimized and its lack is constantly being excused by some pretty weak arguments.

Nokia seems to have a fair bit of cash to splash around these days, could they not throw some at a developer working to fill a gaping hole in their product?

They could; but it would cost developer time (or other resources; all resources are equivalent to time, cash, and/or cocaine ) that would be put to other uses. So that particular argument ("there are other more "important" things to do and making a PIM will take time away from them") that has allegedly been "proven false" is still valid, unless it can be proven that the PIM is more important than those other uses.

I don't say that Nokia should not make a PIM, or that they are not working on any less important projects they could divert resources from. But to deny that it does take away from other resources is ridiculous, and to claim proof that the resources would not adversely affect more important projects is... bizarre. I'm not sure which of those was the intent in suggesting that that excuse was "proven false", but I don't see either of them as sane, and I don't see any other possibilities.

And most of those pretty weak arguments aren't fielded much, or are distorted versions. For example, no one (I know of) says the tablets shouldn't have PIM because they are not PDAs; they say that Nokia can't see PIM as an important goal to throw resources at because they are not intended as PDAs. Very different.

My main way of minimizing demand / excusing absence: "Hey, I don't use a PIM. If you want one, go write one, go march on Nokia HQ, or go whatever, but count me out." Usually, I express this by not posting directly on the topic; I just hang out and pounce on people who make ridiculous arguments about the non-cost of developing a PIM.

One factor seldom addressed is that Nokia's applications generally have a tendency to be annoying and awkward to use, largely because of their UI spec. Therefore it might be better not to have Nokia produce a PIM, but pay a developer to work on an existing project (GPE, perhaps) outside the UI restrictions... (i.e. "throw some at a developer working...", as you said.)

I think Nokia should put the answer to the PIM question in a FAQ somewhere just to quell the question.... and I think it's a fair question, because most handheld 'computing device' nowadays come with some sort of PIM function:

- 100% of PDAs out there
- a good majority of mobile phones, even the basic ones come with simple PIMs
- even iPods come with calendar and note apps!

If it's coming then great! let us know.. if Nokia didn't plan any native PIM ability on the NIT, then just give some marketing bs of making the NIT as a web-only app delivery system. Remind the users of future possibility of offline web apps w/ google gears. Point out the mediocre 3rd party opensource PIMs that are available (But you'd better fix the alarm reliability if you take this route).

But just frickin address the issue already! (Maybe w/ the community council?)