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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2008-07-22 , 10:27
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#41
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
For me package worked first time, so I wont bash the application features because of some erroneous and "idotic" (your words) packaging.
How are you qualified to determine whether my claims that the packaging is bad are "erroneous"? Do you actually know what might constitute a bad package?
 
nilchak is offline nilchak
2008-07-22 , 12:41
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#42
Did I ever negate your point about it being a bad package ? Read the lines instead of reading your own distorted viewpont... trust me it will feel refreshing to actually understand what someone says.

I only said for me the package worked, I never said that constitutes a 'good' package. In fact I accept that it may be a bad package but that does not mean the software features under discussion (one app for multi protocol talk) is also painted bad because of bad packaging.

You know sometimes when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem seems like a nail you got to bang on the head with. :-)
Last edited by nilchak; 2008-07-22 at 14:45.
 

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Pebby is offline Pebby
2008-07-23 , 00:20
Posts: 30 | Thanked: 66 times | Joined on Jun 2008
#43
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
How are you qualified to determine whether my claims that the packaging is bad are "erroneous"? Do you actually know what might constitute a bad package?
No, but you clearly are qualified and do know. I say this without malice: if you have knowledge, share it. Instead of walking into a room full of toddlers and proclaiming, "idiots, don't you know you can walk," then promptly leaving, with the toddlers staring at you, wondering how to walk, you could show them how to do it. Why not elaborate instead of saying "oh, this looks terrible, I'm not getting involved," especially when there are people in this thread who are trying to help each other? That leads to things getting fixed the right way and everyone learning more, instead of only one person (you) knowing the right way, and everyone else being scolded without learning a thing.

This is a community.
 

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ghassane is offline ghassane
2008-07-23 , 04:09
Posts: 68 | Thanked: 18 times | Joined on Jan 2008
#44
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
Gizmo allows Video conferencing or Video chat as I call it , on the ITT. Am I wrong ?
I think he was joking. Actually, what means ITT? Internet Tablet Talk. You said that ITT has a video chat.

Everyone knew what did you mean even by using ITT instead of IT.
 
ghassane is offline ghassane
2008-07-23 , 04:22
Posts: 68 | Thanked: 18 times | Joined on Jan 2008
#45
Originally Posted by Pebby View Post
No, but you clearly are qualified and do know. I say this without malice: if you have knowledge, share it. Instead of walking into a room full of toddlers and proclaiming, "idiots, don't you know you can walk," then promptly leaving, with the toddlers staring at you, wondering how to walk, you could show them how to do it. Why not elaborate instead of saying "oh, this looks terrible, I'm not getting involved," especially when there are people in this thread who are trying to help each other? That leads to things getting fixed the right way and everyone learning more, instead of only one person (you) knowing the right way, and everyone else being scolded without learning a thing.

This is a community.
First, GA is a good person and i'm sure that everyone here try to help others. I think there is only a misunderstanding here. In my opinion, Linux community doesn't like closed software or Windows soft. They are for open source done by community for community. In most topics you find advices for Gizmo and not about Skype for that reason. We choose Nokia tablet for maemo (Linux and open) not only for video or chat. So, i think that, considering that GA has great contribution in our community, he believes in the Open source and community for community (as many of us), and dislike peoples (fring or others) looking only for money.

I think if we start a topic comparing between Skype and Gizmo we will have the same posts. Why we need Skype when there is an open source Gizmo project.

This is only a difference in opinions about what should be used and what is best for our community.

Thanks to OP, to GA, to Pebby and others for helping in our community.
 
GeneralAntilles's Avatar
GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2008-07-23 , 05:58
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#46
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
Did I ever negate your point about it being a bad package ? Read the lines instead of reading your own distorted viewpont... trust me it will feel refreshing to actually understand what someone says.
Probably what I get from browsing with the N800 in bed right after waking up. My apologies.

Originally Posted by Pebby View Post
No, but you clearly are qualified and do know. I say this without malice: if you have knowledge, share it. Instead of walking into a room full of toddlers and proclaiming, "idiots, don't you know you can walk," then promptly leaving, with the toddlers staring at you, wondering how to walk, you could show them how to do it. Why not elaborate instead of saying "oh, this looks terrible, I'm not getting involved," especially when there are people in this thread who are trying to help each other? That leads to things getting fixed the right way and everyone learning more, instead of only one person (you) knowing the right way, and everyone else being scolded without learning a thing.
How do I tell the right way, though? The right way is not to install Fring's incredibly broken package, but nobody here wants to hear that. I've already filed support ticket with Fring elaborating on exactly how broken their package is and exactly how much pain and suffering it has the potential to cause their users. Not much more to be done. I certainly can't fix their broken package for them.

If you want the knowledge, in summary, symlinking system libraries to solve broken application dependencies is Bad Juju™ and installing the SDK repository onto the device is a fairly reliable method of eventually landing a user in a reboot loop. That's the whole of it. Did that help you out at all?
 

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qwerty12 is offline qwerty12
2008-07-23 , 07:05
Posts: 4,274 | Thanked: 5,358 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Looking at y'all and sighing
#47
I say it's a bad package too. The required dependencies should either be kept on their server or uploaded to extras.
Symlinking manually too should not have to be done. or at least, they could do it for you in the postinst...
If the next screen appears, click OK


Dunno about you, but I don't like leaving my catalogs in an an inconsistent state...
This should have been built under diablo sdk. Fring for tablets was recently announced, diablo has been around for a lot longer than that.

Finally, I don't understand why they are so keen to hide the package. Using zap's apt-getit, I was able to download the package.
 
mrunx is offline mrunx
2008-07-23 , 10:35
Posts: 17 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Mar 2008
#48
Originally Posted by ghassane View Post
Why we need Skype when there is an open source Gizmo project.
Gizmo relies [mostly] on open-standards (like SIP, Jabber/XMPP), and thus interoperates better than Skype.
But Gizmo also uses proprietary codecs and is as closed-source as Skype is.

Back on-topic, by bridging the huge Skype network to the standards-based world, Fring might (I haven't installed it yet) become the one-true Unified Communications client, albeit completely proprietary.
 
nilchak is offline nilchak
2008-07-23 , 15:47
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#49
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Probably what I get from browsing with the N800 in bed right after waking up. My apologies.
Huh, you get up in the morning and read the forums' like myself too ?
In fact reading your comment (whcich came out pretty snarky to me)right after I got up from sleep in the morning woke me up pretty fast, otherwise I am wont to laze in bed somemore , but I had to be wide awake and reply to that pass of yours ...

So sleep induced comment nullified with sleep awakened quotes (refer the hammer quote), so all good.. and apologies accepted..
lets move on ...

BTW, another minor point in Fring's favour is its available on S60 phones (which have a huge base in Asia Pacific regions) and hence more contact to reach out to easily, rather than Skype which I believe is limited to desktop and handhelds and some WM devices.
(Is there any Skype for S60 too ? sorry can't check @work)
 
Pebby is offline Pebby
2008-07-23 , 16:48
Posts: 30 | Thanked: 66 times | Joined on Jun 2008
#50
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
...elaborating on exactly how broken their package is and exactly how much pain and suffering it has the potential to cause their users...
Well, yes, that's sort of what I was hoping to get for the less knowledgeable users here - a little elaboration - and your small-text is very much welcomed. We're not all linux gurus (hey, someone even asked what symlinking was in this thread, while some of us [cough-me-cough] are just mad the n810 didn't come pre-installed with GCC and make), but a lot of folks here see the Application Manager as a purdy interface equivalent to a website for magically getting software, with any additional steps 'just linux baggage along the way' - it is good to teach good practices, and why bad practices are bad, since the idea of this device is that we can all be contributors. Who knows who here may want to repository-fy a project some day? The more everyone here understands, the more likely they are to make good choices and create in the future.

Edit:
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
(Is there any Skype for S60 too ? sorry can't check @work)
Yes, there is a version of Skype for the S60 (according to the web and a friend who has one). That said, like you said, it's very proprietary!
Last edited by Pebby; 2008-07-23 at 16:50.
 
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