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qgil is offline qgil
2008-12-25 , 15:20
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,088 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#31
Originally Posted by Traecer View Post
I think there does indeed need to be an "uber-feed reader"--one that can process RSS feeds for text, audio, and video (or combinations thereof).

(...)

Having said all that, I think it is a mistake to incorporate Twitter, Jaiku, etc. into such an app. The founders of Identi.ca (and others) are on record as saying treating microblogging sites as blogs was a mistake; people appear to want to use such sites as a new variant of IM.
... which is an interesting idea.

Alright, so what about this first shot:

- Handle efficiently feeds of text, images, audio, video...
- Connect regularly for updates and small transfers.
- Download volumes of data when wlan is available.
- Good integration with browser (and media player?)

All the rest could be considered later or in addition to, as plugins, etc.

About technology selections, one reasonable candidate would be a Mozilla add-on - taking also into account the cross-platform possibilites specially now that the Mozilla Foundation is targetting Maemo, S60, Windows Mobile (and all the desktops, as usual).

In the current Maemo RSS Feed Reader there is at least one showstopper that should be handled in order to bring multimedia feeds: multithread fetching. I wasn't aware of this enhancement request, hidden under a previous vague summary.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-12-25 , 15:56
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#32
Oh god no. Thats how it works on S60Browser. It seems it is assumed that I want to run a web browser, use the bookmarks, and then see my feeds. No. Backwards. I first check RSS and then decide to open the browser. I want my RSS feeds like e-mail (IMAP). Quickly wade through the subject lines. Perhaps click a few. And then maybe save a one, maybe send it to my e-mail for later, or maybe open it in a browser -- if the situations allow it. I can only speak for myself but I assume people want to be able check the news in a glance. If you wanted to check in the way you describe, might as well simply surf to the sites instead of using RSS.

Also, while RSS is distributed over HTTP usually but because its a defined standard the content can be parsed and used for other purposes. Much like a shell or a shell script. Doing this with HTML and JS is possible but is inefficient because 1) requires to download more data 2) bloat / requires heavier application 3) contains noise (banners etc) and potential UI inconsistensies. One can argue the parsing won't be used much on a tablet. Could very well be true. The other arguments still stand though.

Perhaps its better to allow the RSS feeder to be embedded in the browser, but also allow it to run seperate. I saw a demo of Java FX and Google Gears with such function. Very interesting.
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fattomm is offline fattomm
2008-12-25 , 16:05
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#33
Originally Posted by EIPI View Post
The offline experience is a big usage case for me at least. It will also weigh in heavily for any purchase I make in the tablet arena in the future. Not everyone is lucky enough to have ultra-cheap data rates via 3G.
Hear, Hear! 3G is great (not in my city), and even EVDO/EDGE isn't available when I'm on a subway underground .... My primary usage is underground, so "live" things (e.g. RSS feeds without content) are pretty useless....

I much prefer the "cache everything locally when you can" model (which is how I use the NIT primarily).
 

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EIPI is offline EIPI
2008-12-25 , 18:48
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#34
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Mmm two thoughts:

1. I still want to differentiate between things I can miss (feeds + podcasts + microblogs) from things I better don't miss (email + appointments + ToDo)

2. Presentation in one place doesn't mean that the tool to handle those sources of information should be the same. There are apps and services specializing in email, calendar and tasks. I think it's already complex enough to try to handle the incoming feeds + podcasts + microblogs in one app.
Sure. I just thought that in terms of the interface, it would be useful to have things in one place, leaving the tools that handle them up to the best for that particular task. I also thought a tabbed approach would work well for the various information souces.

Perhaps I'm confusing the presentation (which I care about) with the implementation (which I do not so much). Any improvements in the RSS reader are more than welcome. Thanks for polling the community for thir input!
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qgil is offline qgil
2008-12-26 , 17:14
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#35
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Oh god no. Thats how it works on S60Browser.
No!

It seems it is assumed that I want to run a web browser, use the bookmarks, and then see my feeds.
The user would see first a desktop plugin with the feeds, and could access all his feeds from there. The browser engine would be reused to present the information and process the downloads. The add-on would provide the UI and additional features. At least this is how I understood the benefits to be close to the browser as explained by other people in this thread.

No. Backwards. I first check RSS and then decide to open the browser. I want my RSS feeds like e-mail (IMAP). Quickly wade through the subject lines. Perhaps click a few. And then maybe save a one, maybe send it to my e-mail for later, or maybe open it in a browser -- if the situations allow it.
This is the desktop plugin and, as someone said, it could be done with Python or anything.

But I'm here only stirring the waters to see whether someone comes willing to pick this up. The implementation is up to the ones working on it.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-12-27 , 15:24
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#36
Hmm, I misunderstood that part, but I don't have the RSS feeder applet in high regard because it tries to be finger friendly leading to a lot of usage of the home screen. It cannot hold much information while remaining touch friendly, and there is no such thing as going easily back and forth between other forms of I/O such as e-mail.

What I like in S60v3 is that I have all kind of archives of various protocols and can conveniently swap to a different one (say inbox SMS, or e-mail) using the left and right button on dpad. I don't know how to add or remove one of these lists but browsing in this way is convenient. If RSS feeds would be included there, would be great.

My point here is that there is abstraction of the various protocols / information (like Pidgin), _and_ its convenient to quickly browse through the information and allowing the user to use the protocol as close to its full potential without sacrificing the abstraction.

Sacrifices are made. Like you put in example of 3G connection versus WLAN. Taking into account amount of 3G data used allowing user to monitor this is useful.

The way I see it there are 2 modus operandi. One is basic, for quick usage. The user has overview here. It is easy to quickly scan this. The other one is advanced for extended usage, giving a more (or 'the') full experience. As far as I'm concerned the latter is already the web browser visiting the web page with the RSS. OTOH, I'm not taking audio/video much into account.

BTW, we don't know when exactly Fennec will be production quality. From what I read on septembre 19 that'd be 2010.
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2008-12-27 , 19:56
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#37
gPodder makes a nice podcast app. And we're now really getting a fully finger-friendly UI and fast processing in the latest development version. Two things:

* I'd like to keep things separate (Micro-blogging, RSS-News and podcasts) - have many apps that do one thing but do it well
* Have a home screen "new stuff" type of applet that is provided on the tablet by Nokia and that we (the app developers) can "plug in to" and provide items that need the users attention (new podcast episode available, unread text, reply on Twitter, new mail, download finished, new chat messages, changed websites, etc..)

For example, I can imagine having different "severity" levels (rss news might be less urgent than a (personal) reply on twitter) and providing types such as an image/icon, a title and a short description. Maybe have different display styles for different content types. Research a bit, then come up with a nice "new stuff" applet and provide a unified API for it that can then also be used in GNOME on the Linux Desktop.
 

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qgil is offline qgil
2008-12-29 , 18:20
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#38
Indeed, the critical point seems to be more in the home screen than in the actual app(s). The 'What's Up' desktop plugin makes a lot of sense, I need to ask whether someone is working on something like this in the Maemo team.

Ared podcasts the same as feeds? Are Jaiku/Twitter part of the deal or not? Surely different users have different opinions and all of them could be happy with such configurable Whassup desktop plugin.

I imagine it as a tool to Get Things Done in my info-social context. I would probably be happy with 1-10 entries (configurable) like this:

(delete) - MediaTypeIcon - TITLE - SOURCE - (save) - (ok)

delete = Don't see it again, downloads included.
MediaTypeIcon = text, image, audio, video...
save = file all the content in a placed where it won't go easily away.
ok = take this entry out and replace it instantly with a new one.

Edited: of course clicking the title would open the content either cached or online, according to preferences. Clicking the source could send to the prefedrences for managing such source.
Last edited by qgil; 2008-12-29 at 18:24.
 

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hhedberg is offline hhedberg
2008-12-29 , 21:14
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#39
Originally Posted by thp View Post
* Have a home screen "new stuff" type of applet that is provided on the tablet by Nokia and that we (the app developers) can "plug in to" and provide items that need the users attention (new podcast episode available, unread text, reply on Twitter, new mail, download finished, new chat messages, changed websites, etc..)
+1. I would use that kind of service in Mauku if it were available. We should not try to solve all our problems with only one application but make things better with tighter integration.

Interesting discussion, by the way. Keep going, I am listening...
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-12-30 , 20:53
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#40
Originally Posted by thp View Post
For example, I can imagine having different "severity" levels (rss news might be less urgent than a (personal) reply on twitter) and providing types such as an image/icon, a title and a short description.
Exactly. That is why I tried to define modes. These modes could also be defined as 'roaming' besides 'home' or 'work' and could even change something like the theme. Basically, a mode changes the configuration of the OS to something which the user has defined. You can even think about stuff like e-mail settings.

Maybe have different display styles for different content types. Research a bit, then come up with a nice "new stuff" applet and provide a unified API for it that can then also be used in GNOME on the Linux Desktop.
KDE has something like this, and for GNOME there is an unofficial add-on called Mumbles (OSX has Growl). Ubuntu's Mark Shuttleworth wants to define a standard for this in the Freedesktop.org framework but beware of the following: notifications require no action. There are events which require an action and events which don't require action. This what I'm referring to does not require action, and events which do require action (e.g. user input) are excluded.
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