N900 specs revealed - Page 73 - maemo.org

allnameswereout | # 721 | 2009-05-28, 15:43 | Report

Originally Posted by daperl View Post

I was responding to the person who was telling me about all the great communication technologies that will be here. Well, there not here, so how about I just use what is here. Or is that too much in the past for you?

The topic (N900 specifications) is inherent about the future. The post you replied to was partly about that in-a-few-months-present and how that is going to be the backwards compatibility of tomorow. Nobody took out your little toy either (802.11abg), and the WWAN you used in 1997 (GPRS) is quality and price wise different than WWAN we (many, many people compared to the number of people who share your experience) have now. And for most of those people it is going like this: WWAN: GSM + HSPA -> LTE. A minority will use WiMAX. And some will use WiFi (802.11abgn) or BlueTooth 3.0, but these are for different purposes because they're WLAN. You, like anyone else, are free to opt usage of WLAN or WWAN technology your device provides. Or buy a device which only provides you the technologies you want. So basically what you and many other nay-sayers want is something like Maemo or Mer as OS, 800x480 screen, OMAP3, 256 MB RAM, dpad, stylus, resistive screen, 2 SD cards, 802.11abg. Sounds like something from past if you ask me... but you want it (typical of mid life crisis, people tend to stick in the past

). Well then why not design that or buy something which suits your needs most.......

allnameswereout | # 722 | 2009-05-28, 15:46 | Report

Originally Posted by Benson View Post

We're talking about a device we won't get our hands on for some months, which will have those "great communication technologies", namely cellular data and voip. And will have GSM, which may be used as backwards compatibility only even if not labeled as such. Yes, writing it off simply because current devices fall into a tablet/phone dichotomy is too much in the past for me.

Couldn't have said it shorter! BTW, it is useful to have GSM to call emergency services. VoIP/SIP is less reliable in that regard. Which might improve, and has to by time we use LTE.

johnkzin | # 723 | 2009-05-28, 15:51 | Report

Originally Posted by Justjoe View Post

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=299

The top image shows the difference, and it's a pretty big difference.

It looks to me like the excluded area is exactly the same as the status bar and side menus. Have you tried doing the same thing, using an actual screen shot of a tablet in window mode, and having the shaded area be in the application window part of the screen shot?

fpp | # 724 | 2009-05-28, 15:53 | Report

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post

Being able to surf anywhere is a transformative experience. It's one of the reasons people tether their existing tablets. The MAJOR benefit now, is that we have the option of doing this without requiring a second device! In fact many of us will do this for the first time.
Once people realize that they can look up recipes while in the grocery store, SSH into their server on the train, video chat on the beach, buy tickets in a cab, snap and send photos at concerts, run automation scripts at the movies, etc. I'm sure they will enjoy the inclusion of a cellular radio and accept the 'pesky' half-inch of screen lost.

I believe I can see where you're coming from/what you're getting at, but I'm still not convinced.

For the iPhone/Pre/Android crowd Nokia is obviously shooting for, as I wrote in some other post somewhere, you're probably right.

But for *us*, as you write at the end of that first paragraph ? As in, us here on itt/tmo, already using tablets ? I think we fall in one of two camps.

One is the Wifi-only users, some of which have repeatedly and firmly stated here that they have no mobile phones, and/or want nothing to do with data plans for various reasons. I don't think a "convergence device" will change anything to that.

The other camp is all those who do have a mobile, a data plan, and already tether their tablets. All those things you describe, and more, I have been doing since December of 2005 with my 770 and N8x0. As you say, it *is* a paradigm shift : I actually bought my first personal mobile phone *after* and *for* the tablet, and it's become a way of life.

What I really don't see yet is how this "convergence" thing benefits me, personally.

Do I resent carrying two devices ? No. Sometimes I have three (a 10" netbook).

I already have a phone that does two things the tablets don't : GSM voice and PIM sync at my workplace. Tethering the tablets through it with bluetooth works a charm. Why should I need something else ? I can't think of a good reason, but I have plenty of reasons why I don't...

Let's count :

1) upgradability : tablets still don't have decent competition right now, but phones are a dime a dozen. This is my fourth (second-hand) modem/phone since I got started with the 770. Along the way I went from EDGE to 3G to 3G+. What if I buy a 3G+ N900 this year, and 4G starts rolling out next year ?

2) independence : tablets are unshackled, phones aren't. Over the last two years I switched operators three times in the hunt for the best data plan. What if the N900 is sold by only one operator in my country, like the iPhone was until recently ?

3) dezoning : you could buy (or sell) a 770 or N800 anywhere in the world, it didn't make any difference. With the N810 there is the pesky nag of the keyboard layout, but one may choose to compromise on that. But if your cell radio is CDMA or GSM or whatever, you're pretty well bound to those networks.

4) battery life : two devices means two batteries. The tablet's takes care of computing, the phone's takes care of transmission. And those 3G+ speeds are real greedy leeches. My E71 has the same battery capacity as the tablets - that's twice the juice.

5) versatility : yes, I use my tablet a lot. But sometimes I don't have it with me, or it's just quicker and simpler to whip out the phone for something really simple (weather etc.). The phone also does VoIP more naturally and with less fuss than the tablet. Then again I sometimes spend a day in a meeting with my netbook, which I also tether to the phone for net access. That's three devices I can use that single data plan with ; four, if you count my home desktop when my DSL line is fubared ; six, given that I happen to have three tablets :-)

6) resilience : phone dead ? Buy/borrow another and stick the SIM inside. Stuck in a corner of a room with poor reception ? Position the phone a few meters away near a window and use your tablet/netbook from your seat. Etc.

This all practical, real-life experience. At the moment all that "convergence" stuff is purely virtual to me. Maybe in a year or two I'll see the light and change my mind, but for now it does sound like somebody else pushing their own interests, rather than mine...

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fms | # 725 | 2009-05-28, 15:55 | Report

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post

Really. So accelerometer means problem. The only time that happens on my iPod touch is when I'm lying on either side in my bed using the thing.

Man, I dunno about your iPod, but in a 5800 it is a problem. Not the accelerometer itself, mind you, but the way it "helpfully" rotates your screen. And I still do not understand how it is related to the smallish screen size planned for N900.

Originally Posted by

Well, its important to realize your position. If you're so dissatisfied with all this news development why not design your own hardware and enjoy all these nice people who make their demands and whine when you picked a path instead of simply looking at the good sides of the offer, or the other available offers?

Who told you I am dissatisfied? I am not married to Nokia, so why should I feel strongly about this stuff? In fact, I am cackling evilly at this very moment, enjoying the fact that things are going exactly as I predicted.

Originally Posted by

Uh, that implies nobody at t.m.e. wants to buy this device. Don't give yourself too much credit, aye?

Not giving any. First, I was not talking about wanting or not wanting to buy it, but simply of not being the "target audience" for the device. Secondly, notice that I have used "pretty much none of us". So, you've still got your ticket into the target audience lounge

Originally Posted by

5800 does not compete with N97 that much; they're aimed at different market segment. Kids can't pay for N97, but they can afford 5800.

Actually, it does, if you consider that many consumers (adults too) would rather save those extra $400.

Last edited by fms; 2009-05-28 at 17:51.

ARJWright | # 726 | 2009-05-28, 16:02 | Report

Originally Posted by fpp View Post

Let's count :

1) upgradability : tablets still don't have decent competition right now, but phones are a dime a dozen. This is my fourth (second-hand) modem/phone since I got started with the 770. Along the way I went from EDGE to 3G to 3G+. What if I buy a 3G+ N900 this year, and 4G starts rolling out next year ?

2) independence : tablets are unshackled, phones aren't. Over the last two years I switched operators three times in the hunt for the best data plan. What if the N900 is sold by only one operator in my country, like the iPhone was until recently ?

3) dezoning : you could buy (or sell) a 770 or N800 anywhere in the world, it didn't make any difference. With the N810 there is the pesky nag of the keyboard layout, but one may choose to compromise on that. But if your cell radio is CDMA or GSM or whatever, you're pretty well bound to those networks.

4) battery life : two devices means two batteries. The tablet's takes care of computing, the phone's takes care of transmission. And those 3G+ speeds are real greedy leeches. My E71 has the same battery capacity as the tablets - that's twice the juice.

5) versatility : yes, I use my tablet a lot. But sometimes I don't have it with me, or it's just quicker and simpler to whip out the phone for something really simple (weather etc.). The phone also does VoIP more naturally and with less fuss than the tablet. Then again I sometimes spend a day in a meeting with my netbook, which I also tether to the phone for net access. That's three devices I can use that single data plan with ; four, if you count my home desktop when my DSL line is fubared ; six, given that I happen to have three tablets :-)

6) resilience : phone dead ? Buy/borrow another and stick the SIM inside. Stuck in a corner of a room with poor reception ? Position the phone a few meters away near a window and use your tablet/netbook from your seat. Etc.

This all practical, real-life experience. At the moment all that "convergence" stuff is purely virtual to me. Maybe in a year or two I'll see the light and change my mind, but for now it does sound like somebody else pushing their own interests, rather than mine...

This is fun

#1: Nokia wants Maemo to hit a larger user base, making software and hardware costs for using it decrease, which means in time lower prices.

#2: there has been nothing confirmed about the N900, or any Maemo 5 devices for that matter, being shackled to any carriers. For that matter, Nokia makes a very healthy living everywhere not named the US in selling unlocked/unbranded devices. There's no reason to believe they will become a carrier-ho like ** or ******* or *****.

#3: HSPA is GSM. Nokia deals only in GSM unless dealing with Verizon or Chinese operators. Maemo 5 supports HSPA. Ding as a good sign for Nokia here too.

#4: Two devices means you are less efficient power-wise. One device that is optimized to be used hard, is a much better proposition for all, with the exception of some use cases where two devices might better fit the task.

#5: a smaller tablet, or a tablet with a different form factor would cure what ails you

#6: Or just move closer to the window with one device and be ok XD

There's nothing wrong with having your preference, but as you and others will continue to notice - tech is transforming and there are 3 generations of users to cater to. Nokia will choose one group and rock from there. Either it works for you, or you adjust and it works sotra for you. No need to cry that your milk is no longer good enough, just use what works best and be realistic about your expectations based on what you need and can afford.

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daperl | # 727 | 2009-05-28, 16:05 | Report

Originally Posted by Benson View Post

We're talking about a device we won't get our hands on for some months, which will have those "great communication technologies", namely cellular data and voip. And will have GSM, which may be used as backwards compatibility only even if not labeled as such. Yes, writing it off simply because current devices fall into a tablet/phone dichotomy is too much in the past for me.

The technologies mentioned were bluetooth 3, 802.11n and LTE. I predict you won't be seeing 2 of those in an n900 and LTE will be just 3 letters for the rest of this year. If the HSPA tranceiver in the n900 will work with LTE, great, you'll be all set for 2010. Maybe. But wouldn't it be cool if Nokia would just finish what they've already started? Do you think we needed an n810 WiMAX or a decent browser? Let's walk before we run, fall and break our leg.

Justjoe | # 728 | 2009-05-28, 16:09 | Report

Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post

It looks to me like the excluded area is exactly the same as the status bar and side menus. Have you tried doing the same thing, using an actual screen shot of a tablet in window mode, and having the shaded area be in the application window part of the screen shot?

I haven't done anything more than view that pic, (it's not mine), but for some uses, (viewing fullscreen video comes immediately to mind), it's as accurate as can be. For most others, that's up in the air because we don't know what Nokia has done software - wise.

The more I think of it though, the more I think the only way to come up with a satisfactory mock-up is to photoshop a .gif file, with consideration to new/additional or old/ removed components like (side/top) scroll bars, nav bars, etc.

Barring that, screenshots or a youtube vid by qgil or someone at Nokia would be great !

...of course that could extinguish one discussion for another (or more), and probably more heated, of course.

Joe

Last edited by Justjoe; 2009-05-28 at 16:18.

GeraldKo | # 729 | 2009-05-28, 16:24 | Report

Originally Posted by nhanquy View Post

My 12 year old niece still would not trade my N810 for her IPod Touch after I showed her what my N810 could do!

Have you tried sweetening the deal with some candy or with help on her homework? You might be able to con her out of that iPod yet!

magog | # 730 | 2009-05-28, 16:34 | Report

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post

Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post

I keep seeing this reference, and scratching my head. I can't imagine a need for a dpad in an xterm... I think it's the one app that doesn't need the dpad at all. That's what hjkl are for :-)

Hehe. In Bash there are shortcuts like ctrl+r (search through command history while you type) or ctrl+a (akin to home). You just need to learn them and then you won't miss the keypad.

Okay, okay - fair play. I know I could learn all the bash-isms (I do use Ctrl-R already), and I know I can edit .inputrc and .vimrc to remap the keyboard.

I'd rather not be forced to learn (or design) a completely new set of basic cursor movement keyboard shortcuts for every single application when every other Linux computer has arrow keys.

But y'all are right - I could probably find work arounds. Just not sure that I want to.

Michael

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