GeraldKo | # 1 | 2009-06-02, 19:12 | Report

Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend

or

It’s the ecosystem, stupid

or

Nokia’s biggest problem


My best friend from college is considering getting an iPod touch or a Nokia Internet Tablet. His work requires that he spend a lot of time on airplanes, and he would like a unit for watching movies and listening to audiobooks and podcasts. eBook reading, music, web browsing and other functions are bonuses. His cellphone is a model provided by his employer, and it’s going to stay that way.

He is very, very smart, but he has never had any interest in tech-tinkering. He, like millions of other people, already has an iPod. He isn’t an Apple fanboy, but he knows how to use iTunes and finds it easy. While he might not be willing to spend a giant chunk on the unit itself, he has no problem with dropping a few bucks at a time to download a movie from iTunes or an audiobook from Amazon. (My guess is that his attitude is common.)

Until I started pondering my friend’s needs, I thought the NIT’s main obstacle to popular success was that it came with limited software and took serious tweaking before it could live up to its potential. I thought that if Nokia had solved those issues “before putting it in the box,” and properly marketed it, that the Tablets would have sold well. Other people on this forum have thought that the biggest problems were that the Tablets were not also phones and were not a readily pocketable size. We were all right. (Yes, even though I’m in the I-want-a-4”-screen-non-phone camp, I agree that there is a bigger market for a pocketable maemo cellphone.) Well, we were right that those were big problems, but I no longer see those as the hardest-to-overcome problems.

Here’s the thing: even though I would set up my friend's unit (say, a new N800) to make it easy and delightful to operate, he would still have to acquire its content on an ongoing basis.

So, take movies. For my N800, I start with a DVD and run it serially through two apps on my PC and transfer it via a file manager by SSH or a USB connection. I don’t see him wanting to do that. He, instead, opens iTunes, clicks a couple times, and then plugs in his iPod, which automatically synchs. With a touch, I think he can just click a couple times and download it directly. He’s used to iTunes; but besides his being accustomed, it is easier. I don’t see him, or many other people, wanting to bother with ripping a DVD.

At this point, he finds the iTunes selection of movies too limited. But that could be remedied any day.

I also can download some movies from my local library, but they are DRMed with something called OverDrive. There’s an iPod client; there isn’t one for the NITs.

Next, he subscribes to audible.com. Apparently it’s very simple for him to acquire audiobooks that way, and there's an iPod client. Audible.com files are not playable on a Tablet. I, on the other hand, have gotten my few audiobooks as downloads from my public library. The library’s audiobooks can be played on an iPod, and probably downloaded directly into a touch. Most of their audiobooks can’t play on the NIT.

(There is, furthermore, a heavy audiobook-user on this forum who finds gPodder/pannuci deficient for the purpose, but I can’t remember why and I couldn’t find his post. If you read this, please tell again what your problem is.)

My friend (Jeff, to make him easier to refer to) has a Kindle, but he doesn’t like it. However, there is a Kindle reader for the iPod touch, so he can easily download ebooks from Amazon and read them on a touch. There’s no Kindle client for the Tablets.

I get most my ebooks from my public library. But they are DRMed and there is no client for the NIT. I have to download the file to my PC, then strip the DRM with a Python script and transfer the file, before I can use it on my Tablet. Do I see my friend willing to bother with this? No. (OK, I possibly could skip the de-DRMing if I were willing to use the MobiPocket Reader in the Palm/Garnet Virtual Machine, but I haven’t tried, and I like FBReader. I sure can’t see Jeff wanting to deal with the MobiPocket/GVM gerryrigging.)

I’m the last person you would think would send a friend to an iPod touch when he has expressed interest in a Nokia Internet Tablet. He jokes that I feel such affection for my N800 you would think it was a dog. Nonetheless, and even though I’d be glad to do all the set-up and ongoing tech support for him, I conclude it would be a mistake for him to get one.

Now, I’d be glad to be told where I’m wrong on all this. Especially if people can tell me, for example, where Jeff, for a price, could download properly pre-formatted movies for a NIT; or that there’s a competitor to audible.com that has an equally large selection and plays well on a NIT; or that OverDrive-protected media, Adobe eBooks, and MobiPocket eBooks actually can be used on a NIT. And while you’re at it, I’d love to know what we have that is comparable in scope and simplicity to the iTunes Podcast selection.

Admittedly, this survey of the “ecosystem” is heavily entertainment-oriented.* (Maybe my friend should be getting an Archos, though I haven’t looked into them and don’t know if they handle eBooks, audiobooks, DRM, etc. well.) But as between an iPod touch and a NIT or N900, it seems to me that Apple has won, and not on the basis of its hardware or its operating system! People may argue that eBooks are a niche, or audiobooks are a niche, but can anyone call ALL mobile entertainment a niche?

Nokia, and every other company that isn’t Apple, really has its work cut out for them. At this point, in addition to matching the simplicity, ubiquity, and breadth of running entertainment on the iPod, these other companies will have to overcome the fact that so many iPod users are accustomed to the iTunes interface.

A great maemo and a great phone (or a great tablet) aren’t going to be enough. It’s the ecosystem, stupid.


*This is all entertainment. But last time Jeff was looking at getting an N800, it was so that he wouldn’t have to lug around his laptop for his limited on-the-road business needs. But that solution was a no-go because the N800 lacked a Citrix client.

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Last edited by GeraldKo; 2009-06-02 at 19:19.

geneven | # 2 | 2009-06-02, 20:07 | Report

I have hundreds of (legitimately purchased) Audible books. I think a Netbook would be a good way to go, playing movies nicely as well

It is said that Internet access is going to be available on planes soon; I don't know if they will allow high-speed access enough to play, say, Netflix Instant movies, but with a Netbook he could play them at the hotel on the other end of the flight, perhaps.

I don't think a Nokia tablet of any kind is really good for watching films; if you've even been in a real art gallery (like the Louvre, or El Prado) they put the paintings on BIG walls, not itty-bitty ones. Films should be viewed on big screens, if you have any respect for the artists that made them and what they had in mind.

For Audible stuff, a Creative Zen player would be cheap and small and have a long battery life.

Or a netbook, or anything but a Nokia Internet Tablet, because you have to have Windows or Mac compatibility.

I play Audible files on my Centro; they work great, and you have a Kindle-like ability to download books on the fly and start listening from anywhere you can get your cell phone to work.

Maybe you'll be able to do that on the N900; I don't know about that.

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Last edited by geneven; 2009-06-02 at 20:09.

daperl | # 3 | 2009-06-02, 20:21 | Report

For me, this says it all:

Did you know that as an Apple iPhone/iPod touch developer you currently (iPhone OS <= 2.2.1) do not have access to the devices media collection? Supposedly, in the next week or so iPhone OS 3.0 is coming out of Beta and is going to be formally released, and for the first time iPhone OS developers will have access to their customer's media collection(s).

That sounds crazy to your average linux/GNU person. But your average Apple person doesn't know the difference.

There are multiple worlds out there, and some of us can live in more than one. But most of us can't. Some of us know how and are willing to cross between worlds. But most others don't and are not. It's a personal choice and you should only make it for your self. Let your friend choose his world, and if your friend finds his world lacking, maybe then help him with a solution inside his world. If your friend chooses MS or Apple and needs something from FOSS, it's most likely already been ported. Not the other way around. I know things are changing, but based on the examples you gave, that's the current state.

jaem | # 4 | 2009-06-02, 20:36 | Report

OP: You have a valid point, and it probably does hurt adoption, but I for one like the NITs partly because Nokia *doesn't* load it up with DRM. If it was individual apps that you could choose to download, that would be one thing, but the content distributors would demand DRM, and to make an iStuff-like experience, that would likely go deep into the OS.
One thought though... I don't know whether it's technically legal in your country, but I would argue that torrenting a movie you already own to save the bother of ripping it, etc., is perfectly ethical. That's what I'd do, anyway. Sure, you still have to convert it, but I find that an SD movie run through 2 passes with tablet-encode doesn't take much more than 20 or 30 minutes, which is fine if you think ahead. I agree with what you're saying, but I'd rather Nokia stayed true to their current approach. Something of that sort may be needed to beat Apple, but personally, the last thing I want is a marginally less restrictive Linux-based iPhone.

jandmdickerson | # 5 | 2009-06-02, 20:46 | Report

I think Nokia could do it all if they partnered with the right people (companies). But who knows-- they could not find a partner for the N97in the US....so who knows... Yes IMO the OP is very right on....

allnameswereout | # 6 | 2009-06-02, 23:41 | Report

Why I cannot recommend a N8x0 or N900 to general public.

1) The Nokia N8x0 is not user-friendly enough, outdated/unsupported legacy devices with unfixed problems in both software and hardware aspect while
2) The Nokia N900 hardware specifications are unknown, the launch date is unknown, while there are only tons of speculation.

Why I cannot recommend Apple iPod touch to general public.
1) The Apple iPod touch 1st/2nd generation are legacy products with unknown new hardware on the way, and a new iPhoneOS 3.0 which alters its functionality
2) The DRM and childish review standpoints of Apple's App Store staff often mean the user has to tweak around ie. use jailbreak. You even need that if you want to access the Unix-like environment under the hood. Most people do not require a Unix-like environment though. But the tweaks available are often easily installed. However, is it preferrable to stick with a corporation which more respects its customers? IMO, yes. Nokia might, with their new Linux-based or even S60-based products be able to fullfill that role. And that is why I remain interested in Maemo.

The question then becomes do you wait or do you buy something available now (including reconsidering Nokia N800, Nokia N810, T-Mobile G1, or something from the Nefarious Apple) or do you wait? We only know some things for certain about Maemo 5.0 and a new Nokia N-Series running Maemo 5.0. I decided to not wait an buy an Apple iPod touch; my first Apple hardware product I bought first hand. I wanted to experience finger touchscreen, iPhoneOS, iTunes, MobileSafari, and other Apple products to widen my experience. If you ask me, an Apple iPod touch has a longer live than a Nokia N8x0 because we know iPhoneOS 3.0 will work on it and will deliver it a BlueTooth stack, but the question if it can be jailbroken and the very need for that blurs the preference IMO.

The missing ecosystem you speak of is something we can all contribute to. But is also comes when free software community and proprietary developers accept the platform is relevant and being part of the market. For that, it needs a user base more relevant than a bunch of geeks and hackers, and for that it at the very least requires a new product release both hardware and software wise. So its kinda a chicken/egg situation, like that 5-stage plan of Nokia, it needs an evolutionary path.

As for Apple, last time I checked I was still able to import scene MP3 releases to iTunes, then syncing it with Apple iPod touch. Cause its seen as normal that a DAP can play MP3. Yet, it is also possible to simply legally and quickly buy music using the device build-in iTunes or the host iTunes. That role Nokia Ovi must fullfill. To be fair, it isn't easily possible to sync between 2 iTunes which lacking function sucks!

All in all, I found it easier to tweak an Apple iPod touch than a Nokia N8x0 because its all point and click on the Apple while on Nokia N8x0 you actually have to use your brains when editting config files and reading through threads. I think this is the same for general public. People do not want to jailbreak using SSH and doing all kind of things manually. They want to run a .bat/.sh which does that for them.

Thesandlord | # 7 | 2009-06-03, 00:15 | Report

I totally agree with you GeraldKo. I would never recommend the tablet to my average friend. Technophiles like me, yes, but no one else. I love pushing my stuff to the limit, and the tablets are good for that. I could care less about things working the first time, or DRM, because I pirate everything that can't be had without DRM.

However, most people are not like that. The iPod is perfect for them. I get a strange pleasure tweaking devices, most people find it a nuisance.

Personally, I think devices like the G1, with a "dual" environment are the best. Its both worlds in one. If, however, Nokia manages to do the same, I will get the Maemo Phone. Just cuz I love this community . And Dalvik on Ubuntu means possible Dalvik on Maemo!

stangri | # 8 | 2009-06-03, 00:46 | Report

Uhm, sorry, where's Nokia fault in all that? So both you and your friend have DRMed content which you find easy but there're no Nokia/Maemo players for this DRMed content on Nokia devices?
As soon as you've started getting your DRM stuff you have surrendered your freedom to chose hardware.
If you're happy with what you have, it's fine. But if you're now limited in hardware selection, whose fault is that?

dickcheney | # 9 | 2009-06-03, 01:07 | Report

Uhm, have you ever played a DVD? Or is your freedom so pure you don't watch those?

lma | # 10 | 2009-06-03, 09:30 | Report

Sure, that's a service (convenience) that some people may find useful. On the other hand, other people may find paying twice for the same content just so it can be displayed on a single device undesirable. Shouldn't be a deal breaker either way.

Yes, if your friend wants a device primarily for "consuming" digital media there are many better alternatives out. So what, that's not what the tablets are for, even though they can do a lot of that quite nicely. In fact that's probably also true for any other type of single-purpose device (media player, GPS, ebook reader, games console etc).

Is it really the device manufacturer's job to provide DRM readers and media? I understand Ovi may be blurring the borders a bit, but it's really up to Amazon, Apple etc to provide software that can read their content. I wouldn't even mind if installers for said software came bundled with the official firmware, as long as one is not forced to use them (similar to, say, how skype comes bundled with the N8x0s even though they also come with a perfectly usable SIP client).

The main reason I wouldn't recommend a N8x0 is email support. Modest[1] is just too buggy, claws works but isn't really designed for a mobile device[2] and most non-geeks would laugh if I told them to use mutt or alpine in a terminal. Almost every other email-capable device out there at the moment does it better :-(

[1] The Diablo version. The in-development Fremantle version is beginning to look a lot better.
[2] Not talking about the UI, it doesn't even have support for IDLE[3], let alone proper LEMONADE.
[3] but then again neither does the last modest we're ever likely to see on an N8x0, at least until Mer becomes suitable for day-to-day use