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| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ragnar For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-06-09
, 11:52
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Posts: 3,319 |
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Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#12
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
There is one very important thing to underline - the battery technology determines the phone, rarely does this happen other way. The battery voltage defines the 'native' Vcc for the device and also the charges electronics, etc.
I have kept buying mobile phones since 1997 and they are all in perfectly working shape, but useless, because I can't get batteries to them. I have occasionally bought a new battery (including original vendor-made batteries), but the new battery has always turned out to be about as bad as the one I was replacing, simply because the new battery is really a very old one which has been sitting on a shelf for probably as long as I was using my old battery.
Consider this - I had 4 mobile phones and each had not only different batteries, but also battery *technologies*. The first one was Ni-Cd (stone-age, I know), then came Ni-MH, Li-po and Li-ion.
You can't swap batteries around because the chargers in the set are made for a particular electrochemical characteristic of the batteries. E.g. You couldn't stick a Li-ion battery in your 1997 (probably) NiMH powered phone no matter how good of a standard we had.
Ever wondered why AA batteries are not used in consumer electronics that need a lot of juice ? The old standard does not support the form factor and is electrically incompatible with newer battery tech. That's why the best you have now in AA is NiMH, which has a significantly lower capacity than Li-ion (and if phones standardized on such a format, you'd have to live with lower battery life, increased volume and weight).
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2009-06-09
, 12:09
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Posts: 542 |
Thanked: 117 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ 52 N, 6 E
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#13
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I found an easy fix: I have a wall charger, solar charger and crank charger with all the same output 5-8 volts and a few plugs 5.5x2.5mm standard plug, Nokia old and new (as in N810) plug and a 2.2 Ah 4 AA pack which is 5 volts and can be charged by the chargers mentioned previoiusly and when no power is available can charge the N810 and a Nokia phone.
Most gadgets have 3.7 volts battery voltage (3 NiMH cells or 1 LiION) which can be charged easily by 5 V.
Some cameras (particularky SLRs) use 7.2 V (2 Li cells) which can be charged by 8 volts.
Last edited by skatebiker; 2009-06-09 at 12:13.
Most gadgets have 3.7 volts battery voltage (3 NiMH cells or 1 LiION) which can be charged easily by 5 V.
Some cameras (particularky SLRs) use 7.2 V (2 Li cells) which can be charged by 8 volts.
Last edited by skatebiker; 2009-06-09 at 12:13.
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2009-06-09
, 12:51
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Posts: 3,841 |
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Joined on Nov 2006
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#14
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Jeez, I didn't think it would be necessary to actually say explicitly that of course I didn't want NiMH batteries to be compatible with lithium-ion! Or NiCd. In this forum it should be possible to take _something_ for just granted, OK?
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N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2009-06-09
, 13:08
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Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#15
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Originally Posted by attila77
I'm guessing flexible charging technology would add too much bulk to be feasible in pocket-sized devices, but it does exist. For instance, I have two Anton/Bauer InterActive chargers, the older of which was purchased in the NiCad battery days. The other charger is slightly newer. Regardless, both chargers happily charge Anton/Bauer NiCad, NiMH, and Li-Ion batteries, and I can snap a brand new Li-Ion battery on the back of a seven year old camcorder, as all my cameras have Gold Mounts.
You can't swap batteries around because the chargers in the set are made for a particular electrochemical characteristic of the batteries. E.g. You couldn't stick a Li-ion battery in your 1997 (probably) NiMH powered phone no matter how good of a standard we had.
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2009-06-09
, 13:17
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Posts: 3,319 |
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@ Finland
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#16
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OK, ok, take it easy 
The bottom line is that today's battery tech changes quick enough to make it hard to standardize, even if somebody put up a valiant effort to do it. Notebooks for example would be a far-far-far easier target for standardization (less space constraints, more standardized equipment) and still we have a million different batteries.
The bottom line is that today's battery tech changes quick enough to make it hard to standardize, even if somebody put up a valiant effort to do it. Notebooks for example would be a far-far-far easier target for standardization (less space constraints, more standardized equipment) and still we have a million different batteries.
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2009-06-09
, 13:25
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Posts: 3,319 |
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@ Finland
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#17
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Originally Posted by sjgadsby
If they do, they're probably not doing the batteries any service, or the batteries contain info-chips ($$$). Li-ion batteries have/require a different charging strategy. You can charge anything if you supply a slightly higher voltage, but if you don't take into account the 'preferred' charge curves and values for that particular battery type, you're lowering the capacity and life expectancy of the battery.
For instance, I have two Anton/Bauer InterActive chargers, the older of which was purchased in the NiCad battery days. The other charger is slightly newer. Regardless, both chargers happily charge Anton/Bauer NiCad, NiMH, and Li-Ion batteries,
Compare just these two:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...ging_procedure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_...ttery#Charging
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2009-06-09
, 13:45
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#18
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Right, but as sjgadsby said, there's flexible charging systems out there. Since most newer charging systems are "smart" systems, it's not much of a stretch to incorporate a smart charging system in a device with a pre-set form factor and the smart chip programmed with all the relevant charge curves and configurations (ie voltage, duration, etc). All a battery would have to do then is simply identify itself via smart chip technology and you let the charger do the rest.
So for example, if I were to plug in a new battery, it could report to the device that it's a 3,9v 1800mah battery using charge type 9F. The charging device would then know that it needs to charge the battery in a certain way and to a certain capacity. This kind of system is already used fairly widely across the industry for cell phones, PDA's, PMP's, and other battery powered devices. So if a system like that already exists, why not further exploit it and make standards?
So for example, if I were to plug in a new battery, it could report to the device that it's a 3,9v 1800mah battery using charge type 9F. The charging device would then know that it needs to charge the battery in a certain way and to a certain capacity. This kind of system is already used fairly widely across the industry for cell phones, PDA's, PMP's, and other battery powered devices. So if a system like that already exists, why not further exploit it and make standards?
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Popular Sci-Fi author and creator of the Earthfleet Series.
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www.realmsofimagination.net
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2009-06-09
, 13:54
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Posts: 3,319 |
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Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#19
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Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
Errr, yes, that's what I said (or at least was trying to say) above, too
Right, but as sjgadsby said, there's flexible charging systems out there. Since most newer charging systems are "smart" systems, it's not much of a stretch to incorporate a smart charging system in a device with a pre-set form factor and the smart chip programmed with all the relevant charge curves and configurations (ie voltage, duration, etc). All a battery would have to do then is simply identify itself via smart chip technology and you let the charger do the rest.
Such a programmable voltage/current control power electronics would however be fairly complex/expensive/bulky, so some compromises would still have to be made. As sjgadbsy said, for external chargers, it certainly is a possibility, but for current day devices that do the actual charging themselves (like our NITs and most gadgetry) that's probably just too much of an overhead.
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2009-06-09
, 17:21
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#20
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The charge controller is programmable. So you wouldn't need all that large a unit to do the job it needs to. It might be a tad larger because of the requirement for extra memory to store the long list of approved charge configurations, but that's about it.
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Popular Sci-Fi author and creator of the Earthfleet Series.
www.realmsofimagination.net
Popular Sci-Fi author and creator of the Earthfleet Series.
www.realmsofimagination.net
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