luca | # 21 | 2009-09-11, 17:46 | Report

While I think the device program is a nice thing, I also thinks that nokia has it backwards: they should get the device in the hands of the developers before its general availability.
Also I don't think that bloggers or compulsive posters should get a discount, the formers should have enough with a loaner device to make a review, and for the rest, well, look at the buzz right now and the device is not even available.
Anyway, being neither a developer, a blogger or a compulsive poster, I'll see if my karma will let me apply

slha89 | # 22 | 2009-09-11, 18:15 | Report

I suggest a developer should get the device for $100 (or better $0) and promoters for $300. Nokia needs good developers for this great hardware.

I'd go the way beeing a promoter

daveb70 | # 23 | 2009-09-13, 04:26 | Report

Unlike Texrat's phishing story that flipped and apparently flopped.

As for putting hardware in worthy hands, I agree with luca. it is a bit odd to have the impression some of the folks in the Maemo community who have obviously put blood, sweat, and years into pushing apps/ports/ideas into being for the platform and show promise as future version developers who'll be on the roadmap until it ends did not receive actual hardware for testing purposes prior to any announcements. I of course may be completely in the dark in this regard. it is a bummer that the SDK has been the only option for the community to work with, but it can't be changed now. Saved on NDA 'suits.

I can only speculate a time-crunch was at hand. With an October release month, you push it too far beyond that and it might miss the holiday boat this year.

I agree that putting names up for recommendation would be an admirable way to approach a potential Nokia-issued gratis device program. We all want one at no cost, but realistically it's those that are competent, capable, have the time, energy, and historical proof that they can put code into a final form as a stable app/port for the masses that deserve to be handed a device. Just my elaborated opinion.

qgil | # 24 | 2009-09-13, 06:06 | Report

The fact is that we have distributed developer units to community developers, starting with the selected Fremantle Stars.

For most developers the SDK is enough to get you started and also well down the path. The proof is in extras-devel and extras-testing.

Whenever there is a new devicde announced you get a remarkable amount of people that tell us 'if I had a device I would work on A B C'. Well, it doesn't go like this. First you work on something because you wish and you have an interest, and then we try to help those working on something good and needing help.

Texrat | # 25 | 2009-09-13, 06:44 | Report

It's kind of a "chicken and egg" scenario, but Quim has a point: some started early with the API and came up with solid ideas that in my opinion merited a device at least at discount. Good to know that's underway.

I also agree with a tiered program, with greater discount percentage for hands-on developers and perhaps 1 or 2 more levels after that decreasing somewhat. Reflects reality.

Meanwhile I need to start re-establishing contact with my Salo friends and see if my N800 work warrants more than an N810...

ukki | # 26 | 2009-09-13, 07:52 | Report

In my opinion, the past should mean more than sudden current activity. I think the developer discount should be more of a thank you for work done for the previous platform. I'm sure that would keep the few developers we have happy and on board. A new device brings new ideas after all.

I find it a little troublesome if someone who compiles a game for Fremantle with minor changes has a better chance of a developer discount than people like fms, who probably needs the hardware first. (not sure if he has the developer unit though)

There should be some exceptions of course, but in my opinion this would eliminate the people who are not really interested in the platform from getting the device for cheap.

qgil | # 27 | 2009-09-13, 08:40 | Report

Of course previous experience is important. This is why we think maemo.org karma is relevant and this is also why we are proposing looking for better ways of measuring developer "relevance" at http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...their_software

YoDude | # 28 | 2009-09-13, 12:34 | Report

Good!

This didn't seem to be the case in the past. I remember active threads on iTT months after the release of the N800 with posts from people selected for the developer program who had not received their devices yet.

I believe I openly asked what Nokia's return on investment was when the N810 developer program was announced. That is, how many N800 apps were actually developed on the original developer program devices?

Word of the developers program is what attracted me to the N800 in the first place… Not because I wanted to be in the program,
I paid full MSRP on the first day of the N800’s availability, but because Nokia impressed me with their commitment to the community with the programs announcement,
I had already owned other manufacturers devices that had been orphaned by lack of development or loss of interest by the community and wanted to minimize the chances of that happening again.

When the N810 program was announced I applied because I now was a member of the Garage, maemo.org, Bugzilla and/or any other website or organization I had to register with to report and track a bug that prevented me from using the N800 as it was intended. I wasn't selected but I wasn't expecting to be, I really just wanted to see how the process worked.

It began to appear* to me and others that the developer program may have actually been used to placate the more vocal members of the community or to “pay off” those who may have invested a lot of their time and effort in providing support to new users of the device… an area where Nokia seemed to be lacking. *(I said appeared. I actually don't believe this to be the case.)

I am glad that Nokia has gotten new devices in the hands of productive developers before the products release. I am also glad that the decision as to who received one was made by Nokia and not by a committee that had no monetary investment in the original products R & D.

***

With all that^ said… If there is still budget available for promotional devices it should be spent for just that… promotion.

I propose that one third of these devices be given to maemo.org members based on karma or some other member determined metric to reward those (some providing new user’s support for many years now) who have played by the rules here and haven’t even received even a free dang t-shirt. This I believe will promote active involvement in maemo.org.

I propose that the other 2 thirds be given away by drawing with the only requirements being that you must be a member of maemo.org and not be employed by Nokia. There should be no time requirement. That is, if you join today and the drawing is tomorrow, you could be a winner. This would promote membership in maemo.org.

I further propose that there be enough time before the drawing to focus the “community involvement” message as the purpose of the promotion and to get the word out. Regard, before the trigger is pulled on the drawing these promotional devices should be ready to ship without delay.

zerojay | # 29 | 2009-09-13, 12:43 | Report

You might be remembering my situation which I was very vocal about at the time. I was an exception to the general rule. Most people received their developer device promptly.

While I understand what you're trying to say, I feel that this would only hurt in the end. Bloggers would pick up on this and suddenly we would have 20 thousand new users with absolutely zero interest in anything except potentially getting a new device free and would go away again afterwards. I'm not sure exactly how that would help our community one bit.

penguinbait | # 30 | 2009-09-13, 15:49 | Report

"starting with the selected Fremantle Stars." Does this mean there will be more people able to get into a device program, or is this an unofficial program based on internal discretion?

Lets be real I am NOT a developer although I was able to deliver things to this platform that nobody else was. (or at least in some cases before anyone else was) QT, KDE, Printing, CD-Burner support and software, many revisions of tools to setup partitions and bootmenu, and many many more. I honestly cannot test or deliver software without a device to run it on, its just the way things work for me. I compile 100+ packages move them to the device and start and fixing problems. Especially without a system to test, I cannot determine if when I stop matchbox if it will work. There are just several things that make it impossible for me to turn out a working window manager alternative without a physical device. My hackings will never be in extras. Unless I were to support 100+ packages separately, and then, I never would have been able to put out the working software I did. Alone I cannot support 100+ individual packages.


Additionally this goes to the Karma conversation.

I guess if I don't use maemo correctly maybe I don't deserve any maemo karma. I enjoy the REAL karma from my hackings, and I think that's good enough for me.

I am just saying that the majority of the work I have done on this platform has resulted in very little maemo karma. It's really not that important to me, I could care less about maemo karma. But then if you say this is the criteria that would be used to determine a developer device program, maybe I should care.

Perhaps because I don't use maemo correctly, maybe I don't deserve any to be part of a maemo device program. Although in the past this has not been an issue.


I feel like I have proven over time to be a supporter of Nokia platform and I have proven to be an asset to the community and I feel like I have proven that I will continue to put out my "hackings".

It seems like I was eagerly invited under the 810 device program as well as an additional "free as in beer" device. Perhaps, I did not continue to do what was expected of me? Perhaps there is no longer a place for people like me on this platform? Perhaps I am being considered? Perhaps I need some coffee?

I will just put it this way, unless my carrier or another carrier offers me a cheap one to sign a contract, or if there is a developer program (I would request to be part of it), I don't see myself running out to spend $650 for "this device". So this may be the end for ole pb on the maemo ride. I feel sad actually, but at the same time, its almost like losing your job. Suddenly this whole world of options and ideas comes flowing in. Where will I be 6 months from now? Will I be hacking on a maemo device, a pandora console, maybe its time for a true MID?

The unknown is always exciting