ysss | # 21 | 2009-09-15, 21:32 | Report

@penguinbait: REALLY?!?!
Then what are the US users b*tch*n about in other threads about how bad carriers lock-ins for them?? Sounds like a fair calculation if you get huge discount up front and not have to pay for it (in hidden costs) during your 2 years with them. Not to mention that they usually offer discounts for the upgrades too, and you still get to sell your old phone..

Laughing Man | # 22 | 2009-09-15, 21:34 | Report

True but all they have to do is implement IMEI checking and then tell you have to switch to smartphone plan or no plan at all. What penguinbait posted is pretty much what I'm seeing with TMobile (I'm looking at possible plans and deals for next year when I get the n900). There really is no benefit.

Especially since the n900 is only compatible with TMobile or AT&T (2G). So yeah.. two choices. That makes great competition for each other to improve customer service huh.

Edit: At ysss, that's because people generally like to complain. But the problem is more if you buy a phone unlocked, you get no discount or advantage over those who are subsidized. Thus for non-subsidized phones = bah.

QueenShawtii | # 23 | 2009-09-15, 21:48 | Report

If you have the old T-zones $5.99 you can use that data plan with an unlocked smartphone and with the N900 get 3G to boot. But this is also "Illegal" and they are locking down on this method.

texaslabrat | # 24 | 2009-09-15, 21:50 | Report

because subsidized phones generally are crippled and come loaded with the provider's crapware, for one thing. While the N900 might be different, generally you can't compare the unlocked version vs the subsidized locked version in an apples-to-apples way (E71 vs E71x, for instance).

And it takes just one international trip to realize the advantages of an unlocked, non-crippled phone that can use local SIMs and VoIP applications That may not be beneficial to most, but it's saved me thousands in roaming fees over the years.

christexaport | # 25 | 2009-09-15, 22:07 | Report

Not at all, livefreeordie! You forget that unlike most members of this thread, not everyone is a high salaried software engineer or IT pro. Some of us that are have seen harsh realities of lowering of income, layoffs and foreclosures in recent times. $695 USD is big money for some of us right now.

I myself have spent over $5400 on Nokia smartphones the last 3 years. I'm ready to use some of my upgrade bonuses, get a device subsidized like the rest of the world, and not have to always poop out full price, especially now that I'm between regular jobs. I'll get the N900, but I really don't have the money. I'll do like girls at a Jimmy Choo shoe sale and "ignore all cries of budget and just say f..ggit!"

We aren't whining, either. I and many others across the web, with writers from TMoNews and other sites have written articles and lobbied on behalf of consumers for Nokia smartphones in America for TMobile. It isn't known, but before Nokia started making NAM models, most of the unlocked Nokia smartphones in the US were used on TMo's network, and TMo would actually subsidize them via some retailers (My first N90 was via a contracted subsidy). We begged for US compatible models, and got at&t 3G only instead. Forced to switch to a lame carrier, a TMo device, or wait.

Nokia lost many of its base with that move, and TMo watched many of its unlocked and Nokia smartphone custos walk away. All the top US Symbian bloggers were TMobilers before. We begged TMo to carry the Nseries and Eseries models. Now that a compatible one exists, TMo is ignoring it.

We've lobbied hard to get these devices on carrier shelves, and I won't stop. We are a small but loud voice in the States, and we will be heard. American carriers act as cartels, even blocking unlocked device features on some models if not used on the carrier partner of that device (see iPhone tethering blocked if used off the at&t network, for example).

In the UK, they say we don't speak up enough. I look at their market for devices and think they're dead on, and we don't have to allow carriers to decide what devices we want, and the only way they know we want the N900 or other high end kit is to keep telling them.

christexaport | # 26 | 2009-09-15, 22:11 | Report

And you save MOUNDS of money using an unlocked device. If you travel abroad alot, you may not need a plan for every month. Also, contracts have minimum voice and data requirements which you may not need sometimes. And smartphones at most carriers need a higher cost data plan and minimum voice plan, though TMo is moving away from that policy.

Unlocked devices have no rules, but branded is stripped and crippled, and usually heavily monitored. For instance, at&t won't allow Slingplayer, P2P, torrents or other apps and features on its network, and has threatened to cancel contracts for violaitons.

BadMojoUT | # 27 | 2009-09-15, 22:14 | Report

Aside from what others have mentioned about why the subsidized handsets aren't really all that, I think you overlook the fact that in the US, we are charged for *incoming* as well as outgoing calls and SMS.

I loved being able to buy a 10-20 Euro SIM (or whatever it was) and use it for days on end without ever having to top it up since I'd ask my colleagues to call me. Forget about trying that in the US.

About the only thing going for the US operators is the fact that data plans were generally cheaper than their European counterparts, from my somewhat limited experience (this is from a pool of about ten countries). Although last time I was in Europe, I saw the data plans beginning to match parity with US plans in terms of pricing and download limits.

nilchak | # 28 | 2009-09-15, 22:17 | Report

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

nilchak | # 29 | 2009-09-15, 22:26 | Report

All the *****in and moaning about Carrier lock-in's are mostly not beacuse of the financial reasons (cause money wise its cheaper generally), but because of the crippling that the providers force on the device, thus reducing the functioanlity of the open device.

The 2nd reason is of course the ideological one - i.t. why should I stay under a f...ing 2 year contract - thats just bondage.

But none of that has got to do with the money aspect. And THAT is the only reason why the carriers keep doing what they do here in the US - cause the money still lures the customers inspite of all the howling and crying.

Texrat | # 30 | 2009-09-15, 22:36 | Report

Many neither have nor use credit cards. Mine were cut up 10 years ago.

How about manufacturer financing?