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qgil is offline qgil
2009-09-25 , 19:26
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,087 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#151
Originally Posted by R-R View Post
That is an interesting problem and one of the more important one in the end for the long term viability of an open platform... If users can't get to the hardware it's game over. Hopefully hardware manufacturer could get pressured by such big players as Nokia to release source, at least a year or two after its bleeding edge chips are out ... ?
If the hardware vendors can't make business then it's really game over. Their current business model is mostly based on licensing. It's a tough market of big investments that require big operations to be profitable. The competition is fierce. And still free software is doing some progress in that area as well, so someone is putting the brain to work with business models considering OSS.

I'm wondering if, Nokia being at the center of the real platform direction / innovation, shouldn't right now completely aim for a 100% FOSS platform...
"The aim? To bring to life a shared vision to create the most proven, open and complete mobile software platform - and to make it available for free."
http://www.symbian.org/about/

Maybe a temporary license where we can see the source but not share it might make sense so you can still sue rip-offs and after a while completely free it? I don't know what might work but it's worth thinking about ...
http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/...IEW.COMMERCIAL

The proprietary possibility has to be left as to be able to create an app market for those who still think their great idea is worth 3.99$ and creating a real diversified market of license type.
http://store.ovi.com/
http://maemo.org/downloads/

it will take time to build a community for an e-mail client used on what is right now a fringe platform...
Isn't more or less the same for the rest of pre-installed Maemo applications? Doesn't make sense to focus first on increasing the user base by selling more devices and getting a cross-platform API in place? Then when you cross the critical mass of user and developers is when you can have more promising foundations for free software collaboration at an application level.

I think Nokia did a great job with the community and really is going in the right direction, it might just have to learn a few more things about how to deal with a community.
Yes, we are all learning here about community and about business as well.

I'm wondering, is the new browser front-end (GUI) in Maemo not FOSS ? (I know the back-end now is, and that's great!)
But, If not Why not?
How is that different than the media player which is even more of a commodity to me?
If they were commodity you would find several options to choose at the same level or better. This happens in the traditional desktop, but it's still not the case in the mobile. The foundations and the API are all public so there is no hard obstacle for the free software community to commoditize them. As mentioned before, even Nokia is a contributor supporting directly or indirectly projects like Mozilla or Canola.

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-25 , 19:29
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#152
Originally Posted by korbé View Post
Nobody has the right to contradict Nokia model ?

Beautiful mind. Very.

We have no right to propose to change on something ?


So why the Maemo Community exist ?
That's not what he said.

There comes a point where the wheels come off an argument train, and then it's time to regroup or park the thing... maybe elsewhere.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-25 , 19:30
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#153
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
So Not True
Was kidding, hence the .

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DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2009-09-25 , 19:43
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#154
There's a good blog by Jason Perlow on this topic. Among other things he writes:

"While I have no doubt that many people and a number of large organizations do and can exist on Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) alone, the reality is that a lot of enterprises and people are like me have to and want to use both."

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11167
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-09-25 , 19:53
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#155
Originally Posted by ruskie View Post
Having used both and others as well I must say I still like GTK as a user the most.
But I would like to have them better interconnected. It's possible to theme each other supposedly though I only manage one way always gtk apps as qt.
QGtkStyle should help with that.

Freedesktop should specify all these things so that irrelevant of the toolkit it would be the same data in the end.
Not that I disagree with your point, its just that Freedesktop has come a long way.

Originally Posted by korbé View Post
I prefer to pay for a copy of a Free Software (FOSS) for it evolves than pay for a very restricted licence for only use a proprietary software.
Then realize that by buying a Nokia N900 you support Maemo development which is 99% open source software. Instead of crying about that 1%, why not applaud the 99%?

You're free to run 100% open source Mer or buy another mostly-opensource-smartphone with an OS such as Android or OpenMoko. The former is not a UNIX-like environment with X, whereas the latter does not come with 3G.

I already made example of firmware. Even OpenMoko has proprietary firmware for the GSM whereas the GSM is just embedded hardware; the firmware is software. Same with a BIOS, and there are tons of other examples.

Originally Posted by Alex Atkin UK View Post
People say Open Source is about freedom. But unless you know C++ you are pretty much screwed
You just insulted tons of C and Python programmers. has it ever occured to you that if you don't know e.g. C++ you can learn it or hire someone who knows? So lets say you found a bug in PulseAudio. You pay the developer to fix it. With Microsoft Windows that is not possible, whereas almost everything of Maemo is open source. The most important stuff is core software (usually LGPLed libraries) whereas something like Ovi Maps or Google Maps or Mediaplayer can be replaced. The rest of the software does not depend on such proprietary technology. So something like Mer can simply ship without that and be 100% open source, while proprietary software can be programmed and distributed for Maemo without making the OS less free.
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range is offline range
2009-09-25 , 20:02
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#156
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
oxy*****: enterprise open source.
Why? In a universe which needs no money, there's no need for protecting your code either.

The Earl Grey? Hot, please.
 
korbé is offline korbé
2009-09-25 , 21:56
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#157
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Maemo made a bet with Modest, and the contributions were also modest (yes, you can blame our mixed-open development but still).
Maemo is an OS that calls itself "Open", but in reality it have got a proprietary application layer.
Don't be surprised if few supporters of free software are contributing.

If you want a large community of contributors, aim for an OS for supporters of free software -> 100% FOSS
 

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qole is offline qole
2009-09-25 , 21:59
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#158
Well, actually you need two key things that have been poorly done, or missing entirely (in the past) from Nokia's open source attempts:
1) release early and often (no hiding code in between releases!)
2) provide a low barrier to entry (make the released code usable)
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korbé is offline korbé
2009-09-25 , 22:08
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#159
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Then realize that by buying a Nokia N900 you support Maemo development which is 99% open source software. Instead of crying about that 1%, why not applaud the 99%?
This, we do not know yet for Maemo 5.
I wait precisely this information for decide buy or not buy the N900.

If I can install other OS, if I can remove each proprietary element in Maemo 5 (exept drivers) without breaking the system and I can replace these with an equivalent FOSS, then I will buy the N900.
 
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qgil is offline qgil
2009-09-25 , 22:16
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#160
Originally Posted by korbé View Post
Maemo is an OS that calls itself "Open", but in reality it have got a proprietary application layer.
Don't be surprised if few supporters of free software are contributing.

If you want a large community of contributors, aim for an OS for supporters of free software -> 100% FOSS
In fact the wording goes around "open platform", without any pretension of openness in the application layer. The factors of success rely more on the points made by qole, I agree.

Within the Maemo platform there are hundreds of components.

- Many of them are untouched upstream / Debian.

- In a bunch of them we contribute a lot, directly upstream e.g. Tracker or BlueZ.

- In a bunch of them we collaborate directly with the upstream maintainers e.g. GTK+ or Telepathy.

If you want to contribute to all these components just go upstream and file your patches. They will come sooner or later to Maemo.

Then we have a small list of components where upstream is basically made of Nokia maintainers or other working for Nokia under contract e.g. Application Manager, RSS Feed Reader, Hildon, MAFW... Until now these have suffered a lot of not-open development, yes. Working on the fix, patiently.

And it's true that it's very difficult to get the picture of all this. This is why I ask you to vote and propose solutions at http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._contribution/
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