N900, first casualty: need doctor - Page 3 - maemo.org

javispedro | # 21 | 2009-10-12, 21:49 | Report

Originally Posted by aboaboit View Post

Hold it: the gui updater runs "apt-get update", while I ran "apt-get dist-upgrade". Different story. Should have looked for plan B before cutting the tree branch I was sitting on, is all.

Actually, the gui updates runs a even more coward algorithm than apt-get update, unless you enable the adequate red pill option (which is not recommended, of course).

aboaboit | # 22 | 2009-10-12, 22:05 | Report

Originally Posted by javispedro View Post

Actually, the gui updates runs a even more coward algorithm than apt-get update, unless you enable the adequate red pill option (which is not recommended, of course).

Could you explain in more detail the differences between the two approaches? (pointers will do)

allnameswereout | # 23 | 2009-10-12, 22:10 | Report

Originally Posted by aboaboit View Post

Extras-devel was explicitly disabled prior to the test and package cache was updated first.

Besides, I am not worried about that... I have hosed my fair share of routers and such and when that happens I simply swear a bit, reflash and go on with work and life, no biggie. The second time around I am usually way more careful :-)

It was a general statement, but...

Extras-devel was explicitly disabled? Goodness... that implies it was enabled before. Extras-devel should never have been touched or enabled! If you have enabled Extras-devel and then apt-get update, then apt-get upgrade, and then switch back to Extras ('explicitly disabled prior to test'), some packages you have upgraded from Extras to Extras-devel will be newer than the ones in Extras hence won't be upgraded with apt-get upgrade.

You cannot switch back to Extras from Extras-devel just like you cannot downgrade your Debian Lenny to Debian Etch. Or at least, it is not possible without a lot of trouble and effort. It is not recommend. And if you did this, well, I'm not surprised you hosed your system.

I'm glad you don't mind things break when you're playing.

While it might be seductive to get more or more recent software on your N900 via Extras-devel it isn't wise to get them right now because it may break your system. Some software is still in Extras-devel but won't work on N900 or Maemo 5. Except for SDK there is no way to have another N900 for development or experimental purposes. Maybe individually grab the packages from Extras-devel, but its best to wait, you don't know what can of worms you're opening.

Therefore, consider:

1) Many other users are caring or will care to keep their system working.
2) The device will be regularly used as mobile phone; IOW important 24/7 services, even for emergency services.
3) When current N900 users break their system there is no way for factory default because firmware images are not yet available.

Imagine your access provider hosing a router. Oops, lets reflash it and go on with work and life. Dear customers, feel free to swear a bit, we don't care about your opinion anyway. I wouldn't want to do business with such corporation. So I hope you don't behave this way universally

javispedro | # 24 | 2009-10-12, 22:20 | Report

Originally Posted by aboaboit View Post

Could you explain in more detail the differences between the two approaches? (pointers will do)

Pointer: http://blogs.igalia.com/vjaquez/2009...ssu-nightmare/

As for the rest, you'll have to read HIldon Application Manager source code.

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aboaboit | # 25 | 2009-10-13, 06:45 | Report

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post

Extras-devel was explicitly disabled? Goodness... that implies it was enabled before.

Actually, I quoted from my notoriously unreliable memory: it probably was "Extras", since it is the only one already available in the GUI. I enabled it straight away, hoping to find osm2go there, then during Till's presentation I heard it had not been promoted yet and just left it on.

Anyway, your explanation pretty much fits the data. I never had trouble with apt-get dist-upgrade on my desktop systems and this gave me too much confidence. Lesson learnt the hard way, I suppose.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post

So I hope you don't behave this way universally

Nono, I work with end-users and I like it when things just work, so that they don't call again

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ceroberts75 | # 26 | 2009-10-13, 06:50 | Report

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post

Imagine your access provider hosing a router. Oops, lets reflash it and go on with work and life. Dear customers, feel free to swear a bit, we don't care about your opinion anyway.

isnt this what just happned to Danger (sidekick) on this last saturday?

thier server went down and EVERYONES info was lost completely!

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RevdKathy | # 27 | 2009-10-13, 06:54 | Report

Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post

Haha, the command line can be a powerful tool once you learn how to use it correctly. But yeah, at first when you use it (I started from Window DOS) it's like woah.. and why on Earth would I use this. Now I'll split activities either way, depending on how fast I think it will take and depending on if I know or can remember the commands.

Ok, I exaggerated for effect. I know how to use half a dozen command lines in windows.(Like how to ping my server if the net crashes, for example) But I also know that i am waaay out of my depth here, and paddling like hell to stay afloat.

But I am learning fast, and picking out the bits I do understand. The fact that there's no factory image to reflash with means something to me: it means "Don't do anything stupid until this is no longer the case. When the reflash IS available, find it, bookmark it and keep it very, very safe. If I don't need it, some poor bugger will."

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ymb | # 28 | 2009-10-13, 07:03 | Report

Originally Posted by omniscy View Post

you CAN login as root, but you aren't by default.
As it is in (all) linux distro's.
As it should be

And the default root password is in the Wiki.
As a regular user of a computer there should be no need to login as root, everyday tasks should be able to be done with a normal login.

Making gaining root slightly more challenging is one way to prevent lots of "i typed these instructions i found on a web page and now my device no longer works. What should i do"

The App manager GUI is kind of good, and from so far I have had no problems with it (other than the slightly counter-intuative lack of an list of installed apps, which has an easy work-around of using the un-install option).

{FLAME-BAIT}whining about not being able to easily get root access is a good warning sign that you should not be attempting to get it!
Either you are a Windows user used to doing everything as administrator or a n00b u*ix-admin who has not yet typed "rm -rf / *" on a production server{/FLAME-BAIT}

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fanoush | # 29 | 2009-10-13, 08:21 | Report

Originally Posted by aboaboit View Post

With just the Nokia standard repositories enabled, I noticed that apt-get dist-upgrade showed a bunch of updates and, being my usual curious self, I immediately went ahead.

Welcome to Maemo. You proved yourself unworthy ;-)

apt-get dist-upgrade is not working properly , this is classical maemo trap since Nokia 770 days

Originally Posted by aboaboit View Post

Unfortunately, this resulted in the removal of most of the important packages

Yes and you probably seen big list of packages listed for removal and big warning and are you sure question :-)

Looks like you're now the best guinea pig to find out the way to recovery. As answered in mailing list, try to make rootfs image from working tablet. Rough steps are
- figure out proper mount command to mount clean root to some empty directory
- figure out ho to create flashable ubi/ubifs images
- figure out rootfs flashing with flasher-3.5

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mece | # 30 | 2009-10-13, 08:59 | Report

Loving this thread! I'm glad I didn't run dist-upgrade on my friends N900 yesterday. He might have been upset.

I've been waiting to hear some recovery methods for the device, since I most likely will mess up my not-yet-recieved N900 once I get tinkering.