ddalex | # 1 | 2009-10-16, 13:30 | Report

I'm on a rant here, I'm frustrated and quite upset right now, so take this rant with precautions, and accept advanced apologies if I offend anyone.

Qgil, it seems to me Nokia has a big problem right now: every couple of years Nokia breaks complete compatibility with old devices, and leave developers in the dust. This is why your comparison with laptop market doesn't hold water: almost every Maemo device Nokia puts out need new custom development from day one, and this is why Nokia needs to send out these devices at low low prices- to get enough developers behind the movement to create enough _interesting_ applications in order to have an applications market that would drive N900 sell. If you'd get previously compatibility one wouldn't need to get the latest and most expensive device in order to develop for it, and you wouldn't need to have developer devices sent out at discount prices for every device launch. And it's not just Maemo, it's Symbian too. It's like Nokia shoots itself in the foot everychance they have, and they love it.

So let's say I'm a diehard Nokia fan - my case; what should I develop on now, which device should I buy, on what should I focus ? I bought a 770 for a pile of money, just to have it WSOD'ed in a week, and drop another hundred to get it repaired out of warranty; just a couple of months later, N800 was launched, and I didn't manage to get in the developer program, and I didn't had any more money to spend on it. This year, Nokia launches 5800 with the message "platform is here to stay", so I get one, and start toying around with it, only to discover that again the platform is fractured - N97 isn't quite compatible, developing for both require you have both devices; and now the clear message that Maemo is the future, making v5 Symbian already dead on arrival.

Should I get a N900 then ? Not with my money on the full price for a still buggy device, considering only yesterday fakeshots of N920 appeared, with the message of launching in 9 months with maemo 6 and multitouch, and rumors possible N900 incompatibility - credible rumours if we account for the past.

Why can't we be more like Apple, with its incredible ecosystem and care to compatibility (three generations of the iPhone all capable to run the same latest software !), or like Google with its extreme predicability and openness ( compatibility across spectrum, clearly defined future intentions, huge market ) ?
I think Nokia wants to be in the same league, blurring the line between laptops and mobiles, wanting to have lots of developers committed to the platform, but cant' switch from its mobile-manufacturer mentality that every phone is unique and not necessarily both forward- and backward- compatible across an ecosystem.

So let me ask here: if, as a developer who doesn't have enough karma to get a nice discount for N900, if I put my money down for a full-priced unit, what do I get in return ? Big market - no ? Future prospects - no ? Ecosystem (compatible devices in the future, market place) - probably not? Is it all about the community and prestige ? This is not about me personally, but about the Nokia policies that make me think that if I throw away another several hundreds for a "development platform" in just a quick couple of months I'll have just another paper weight because all the latest focus and drive has moved to another device and platform.

One disgruntled Nokia user,
Rant over.

zerojay | # 2 | 2009-10-16, 13:37 | Report

1 - Completely off-topic.
2 - Glad to hear you're having luck running iPhone apps on your 2nd generation iPod.
3 - QQ

jeremiah | # 3 | 2009-10-16, 13:52 | Report

1. Apple takes 30% of the gross revenue of any app you develop. They will not allow just any app on the device.

Contrast with Nokia: build whatever you want.

2. Google has poisoned their well by unreasonably rejecting applications on their platform.

Contrast with Nokia: upload whatever you want.

In addition;
- Maemo is built on debian. That means you can port many already existing applications to the device.
- Nokia is the #1 cell phone maker in the world with a market share in Smart Phones vastly larger than Apple and Google combined.

I think the wise developer will see that the opportunities here are huge.

ddalex | # 4 | 2009-10-16, 13:53 | Report

Not offtopic - it pisses me immensely that people that wrote significant software for N800 don't get in the dev program because their software is made obsolete for N900. If they'd put this kind of energy into iPhone app development they'd made some nice money off it. With N900 they have to but another device if they need to port the software, with still no prospect of getting cash in return. Why would they commit further to this platform. I'm NOT talking about me here !

2 - Nice though you can have a shitty 2-year old iPhone and getting the same benefits (on both sides of the market !) as one who just jumped on the train just yesterday.

What I'm trying to say: I'm not gonna risk a lots of money here and I'll take my game elsewere if I (and others who may feel left out of the program) can't get more transparency from Nokia about future plans and support.

Yesterday, Slashdot had a discussion about how Nokia learns to love and embrace openness. Congrats, Nokia, for not realizing that open souce != openness. Control freak Jobs manages to have a more viable platform than the guys running Linux on their devices!

Rant over, got a meeting to attend to and need to cool off.

attila77 | # 5 | 2009-10-16, 14:00 | Report

??? I would argue the contrary, those that had popular software for the N8x0 were those who could build karma. Budding N900 developers are nowhere to be found on the karma map.

ddalex | # 6 | 2009-10-16, 14:01 | Report

100% from 0 is 0 : there is no market place for Maemo.

This is why I can't get online radio to play on my devices !

This is why I can't get a basicly decent stock market application.

This is why no _real_ innovation in software happens on Maemo: only ports from desktop. Why I'm pissed off: I just noticed Layar and there is no way to run it on either symbian, maemo, N800 or N900. Talk about innovation.

They have incredible innovation, support and presence. They rejected few shitty applications, news at 11: nobody cares!

Of course, on Maemo I can put anything: what's the killer app for this platform, 'cause I kind'of missed it on garage ?

This is why iPhone owns 60% procent from the mobile applications market, and 50% of
mobile internet traffic. Nokia was in this market before anybody dreamed of iPhone. But I cant' install a symbian application intended for another phone is my life depended on it.

To do what exactly with a device that will be obsolete in 6 months ? This is my rant.

zerojay | # 7 | 2009-10-16, 14:09 | Report

Who are you talking about then? If the person wrote significant software for the N800, they would surely have the karma to be included in the program. So...

Anyways, again, your *****ing and moaning is completely off-topic here. Open a new thread if you want to continue telling us how wrong you are.

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Last edited by zerojay; 2009-10-16 at 14:12.

twaelti | # 8 | 2009-10-16, 14:22 | Report

You really wrote that in ultrarant mode I fear. My experience is completely different. In my opinion, everybody who made a medium contribution to the community got in the dev program (just see me with the N810 and the N900).
In addition, you can use the scratchbox environment to develop whatever app you like, then test it remotely on a real device using the service from Forum Nokia.
If you're truly interested in the success and possibilities of the platform, you will understand why the N900 breaks so much - at least in terms of UI. Maemo 5 is for fingers, and this needs fitting UI concepts.
And in the end: the device program offers a discount of how much? 200 EUR perhaps? This completely pales in relation to the hours of work needed for any developer to contribute just a small app. The discount is absolutely insignificant, it's just a nice gesture from Nokia towards the constructive part of the community.

Really, these rants are absolutely unnecessary.

fanoush | # 9 | 2009-10-16, 15:03 | Report

Hmm, are you sure it was really intended as a nice gesture? Because indeed for some people it really may be just a gesture and 300EUR is a no go no matter what is the retail price and discount.

Plenty of people here in the forum got N810 (or any previous device in fact) after the price dropped to $150 range.

DaveP1 | # 10 | 2009-10-16, 15:55 | Report

I can't speak for developers but as a user I completely agree. I am very hesitant to invest in an N900 when Nokia has not indicated how long they intend to support the platform.

I have an N810. Fixed in Fremantle may be a joke to some but it is a serious indictment of Nokia in my mind. Apple's support of all iPhones over several hardware and software releases has been mentioned. I would add Microsoft's support of Windows.

WinXP was released in 2001 and was actively supported until this year (and will continue in legacy support for several years). The vast bulk of programs written for WinXP will run without modification or recompilation on regular Win7. For those that won't, Win7 provides an XP compatibility mode.

I realize the environment is different but other companies seem to have a greater concern for their legacy customers and their devices and OSs than Nokia seems to. I suspect it is the fact that Nokia comes from the phone world where the OS and apps were largely device specific.

For whatever reason, the idea that Nokia is developing Maemo 6 without any expressed intent to make it compatible with the N900 is a big factor in my decision whether or not to ditch my current phone and, I assume, a big factor in non-Maemo developers' decisions as to whether or not to develop for Maemo 5 and the N900.