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2009-10-27
, 13:35
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Posts: 850 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Vienna, Austria
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#22
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Originally Posted by benny1967
hmmm i recently purchased several items from several distributors in our country, and they all had clauses like this one:
Well, actually it's the other way round in your country
"Die Bestellung des Kunden stellt ein Angebot zum Abschluss eines Kaufvertrages dar. Die anschließend von uns verschickte Bestätigung des Eingangs der Bestellung stellt noch keine Annahme des Angebotes dar. Der Kaufvertrag kommt erst zustande, sobald wir dem Kunden die Versandbestätigung übersenden."
that's from mylemon.at
but, i'm not a lawyer (god forbid), so it's entirely possible i'm misinterpreting something, or that clauses like these are not even legal. i just wanted to show that distributors try to protect themselves from preorder complications by saying the contract isn't binding as long as it's a preorder.
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2009-10-27
, 13:44
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#23
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Originally Posted by SubCore
hmmm i recently purchased several items from several distributors in our country, and they all had clauses like this one: ...
.......
.... as I said: They need to have such clauses, because otherwise accepting a pre-order would make it legally binding.
That's Austrian law, of course. US law is based on very different principles.
But still: Sometimes you get amazing results from courts if a company bluntly abuses their own terms and conditions to the consumers' disadvantage... What happened here seems a very likely candidate. After all, the change of the order system was nothing that happened out of the blue. It was completely under Nokia's own control. Well... however. I doubt any of our American friends will really try to sue them
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2009-10-27
, 13:52
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Posts: 850 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Vienna, Austria
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#25
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Originally Posted by benny1967
ah, yes
.... as I said: They need to have such clauses, because otherwise accepting a pre-order would make it legally binding.
i was making the point that everyone has such clauses. classical misunderstanding
i thought you really didn't know how it works over here:
"I'm trying to figure out how the legal situation would be in my country..."
That's Austrian law, of course. US law is based on very different principles.
it all boils down to what nokiausa.com has in their general terms & conditions and if that's in accordance with us law.
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2009-10-27
, 18:20
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Posts: 176 |
Thanked: 56 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#26
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I placed my order September 24th. I called Nokia and they said my order was not canceled. Also said they were receiving phones the first week of November and shipping in the middle of November. I got the impression that their computer system canceled old orders if they had not shipped for some period of time. Brightpoint always screws us on price now they screw up the orders as well.
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2009-10-27
, 18:25
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Posts: 225 |
Thanked: 58 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#27
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What i dont understand is, why is nokiausa for example not updating their release date? And amazon.co.uk is still saing 2nd nov. Probably they are not forced to change it, in germany it says 25th nov.
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2009-10-27
, 18:34
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Posts: 1,283 |
Thanked: 370 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ South Florida
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#28
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Originally Posted by Ghule
Heh, it looks like the status page is about as accurate as the availability on the websites and the estimation of delivery times!
I dont know how long the "In Process" shows. I cancel my order from them on 10/22/09 and reordered it with Newegg. Saved me around 150 dollars. But my order as of 10/26/09 still shows up as "In Process". I even called them this morning to make sure my order was canceled... they say it was. I just wish there page would reflect that. But since they have not even changed there ... End of October.. release date... I am guessing they are just real slowwww about updating stuff.
Not sure how much money newegg would save you. But since price was 559 and no sales tax. They money I saved would about buy two of those free bluetooth headsets from nokia
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2009-10-27
, 18:37
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Posts: 1,283 |
Thanked: 370 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ South Florida
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#29
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Originally Posted by pycage
Well, if Nokia doesn't want self perpetuating BS Loops they could provide REAL information.
Self-feeding information loops are prone to get picked up by journalists to fuel a self feeding wrong-information avalanche, so be careful what you say on the web.
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2009-10-27
, 18:55
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Posts: 1,885 |
Thanked: 2,008 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ OVI MAPS
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#30
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Originally Posted by benny1967
not read all thread so don't know if this as already been said but i'm almost sure that in EU or atleast in UK you dont enter any kind of binding contract until the exchange of money took place when purchasing goods
Is this legal? I'm trying to figure out how the legal situation would be in my country... You place a pre-order. As soon as they accept it, there's a binding contract. They can't just go and cancel it because they chose to change their order system.
Is it different in the U.S.? Or didn't they accept the pre-orders?
Doesn't matter in the end. It just goes to show Nokia's inability to deal with customers. Yet again.
Only if the vendor states he can cancel pre-orders in his general terms and conditions ("AGB") he may legally do so. In principle (and if such a clause is not found in the terms and conditions), a binding contract is established as soon as both parties say they both want the deal. It doesn't depend on payment or anything else. You go into a shop, point at a phone and say "I want to buy one of these. Can I come next week and pay? I'll take it with me then." The shop owner says: "Agreed. I'll see you next week then." - From this moment on, you are obliged to pay and he is obliged to give you the phone. Should he sell it to somebody else before you fetch it the next day, you can sue him. Also, if you don't show up with the money he can take you to court.
The case discussed here is interesting because a change in the order system on Nokia's side might be considered not a valid reason for cancelation even if some rights to do so are reserved in the terms and conditions. I'm not gonna read the English text from the US Nokia site, though... legal texts give me a headache in German already.