Andre Klapper | # 11 | 2009-11-21, 18:54 | Report

Bugzilla is not easy to use. But it is a bugtracker and not a forum. I'm always a bit afraid of "Can't send mail. Please help!!!!" reports, hence Bugzilla does ask you for a lot of info and asks you to be exact.
However what you need to do is
* get an account
* click "Enter a new bug report" on the frontpage
* choose the category, or click "All" if you are unsure
* choose the application/component
* Set Version, Summary and fill in the template

If something is wrong or information missing, the Bugsquad will ask anyway, as Ima wrote here. :-)

There is a guided version (see Ima's link) but it's really noisy and ugly currently. I don't see advantages compared to the current situation.
We consider using the guided version by default for "new users" (not having bug edit permissions), but only after upgrading the maemo.org Bugzilla version to a more recent one (which is technically speaking highest priority currently).

I'm more than interested in any other feedback regarding Bugzilla.

Andre Klapper | # 12 | 2009-11-21, 18:56 | Report

So true. Normally you send feedback and it ends up in a black hole. I've had it quite often in GNOME Bugzilla that people were actually surprised when coming back to them for followup questions - "Uh, somebody human read my bug report?"

EIPI | # 13 | 2009-11-21, 19:01 | Report

My comment in another thread is probably better suited in this thread.

RevdKathy | # 14 | 2009-11-21, 19:16 | Report

I suppose for me it's a collection of issues. There's the need for yet-another login. Yes, I have one (I voted for a bug!) but that's off-putting.

Secondly, the whole layout of the thing and the way the information is sought. I find I'm looking at it and thinking "If I had a problem, I wouldn't know what to put in half those fields!"

I can work out the that OS should be Maemo, and the form fills in who it needs to go to. What does it mean by 'alias'? And whose url does it want? The app? Mine? I'm confused.

Knowing there's a Bug-squad is hugely helpful to me. The idea that there's a few people who will look at the file, make sure it's coherent, and contact me if more information is needed makes me actually feel a whole pile more confident about filing.

To give you an idea of what I'm used to, I've spent a lot of time on a forum where there would occasionally be issues. We had a tech support forum, managed by the forum sysadmin. If you complained that the forum wasn't working right for you, you'd quickly be asked to be clear and explicit: I wouldn't expect to say 'the foo isn't working'. I'd say "I'm using Firefox 3.5.5 with no add-ons on vista, and when I click on foo I get a gobbryfux pop-up saying 'you do not have access to this function'. This happens every time." The sysadmin would then appear and request any other information he needed.

For me, knowing that the bug-squad are checking files makes it a lot less scary.

So thank you. Just one practical sugestion: For average Joe users, a line that says 'the Bug-squad will contact you if further information is needed' might be reassuring.

Edit cos EIPI got in while I was composing: thanks for that - I saw the post in the other thread, and it was very helpful.

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Last edited by RevdKathy; 2009-11-21 at 19:22.

krisse | # 15 | 2009-11-21, 19:38 | Report

Bugzilla is NOT complicated because it's a bug tracker, it's complicated because:

-It's usually asking for more info than the user really needs to give.

-It's asking for all that info all on one page, instead of the usual step-by-step wizard that people are used to.

-It's using highly technical words where simpler terms would do just as well.


I want as many people filing bugs as possible!

The more people file bugs, the better we can all see which bugs are actually causing problems in the real world.

Some bugs aren't even bugs as such, but really bad design decisions. Experienced users and developers wouldn't necessarily see them as bugs, but ordinary users would because they cannot get the device to do what they want.

I don't want ordinary people forced into using Bugzilla if they want to file a report, because it's far too scary for ordinary users. They simply won't use it.

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Last edited by krisse; 2009-11-21 at 19:41.

Andre Klapper | # 16 | 2009-11-21, 19:44 | Report

Single-Sign On is being worked on.
http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Single_si...stored_in_ldap

Ah, so it's unclear that this has not to be filled in.
Good to know.
If you have an account, can you file a bug report in Bugzilla, against Bugzilla, asking for this sentence, plus info that stuff like "Alias" does not need to be filled in? Thanks in advance; if not I can do it myself later on of course. :-)

Andre Klapper | # 17 | 2009-11-21, 19:47 | Report

For example? If in doubt I prefer to ask for more info than needed as it saves time for the Bugsquad and the Developers (but not for the reporter, I agree).

Agree, and that's what we might change later when switching to the guided mode.

As always, explicit examples welcome. Basically everything can be improved by patching. :-)

krisse | # 18 | 2009-11-21, 19:47 | Report

Brainstorm is a much better format for reporting bugs. It might not be as exact as bugzilla but it makes it a lot more likely that ordinary people would report bugs or problems.

And as I said above, the line between bugs and design suggestions isn't that clear.

The way Maemo 4 shut down flash when it ran out of memory caused a lot of users to think their tablet didn't have flash support, because the interface designers deliberately didn't tell the user when flash was being shut down. I tried for ages to get them to inform the user that flash was being switched off, but they just kept saying this would break their design rules, so they continued to allow many users to mistakenly think the N800 and N810 didn't support flash.

Andre Klapper | # 19 | 2009-11-21, 19:50 | Report

Uh, I disagree. Being vague of course makes it easier for reporters, but for development it just means that the actual work being done will decrease.
What exact parts (in the User Interface) do you think are better in Brainstorm for reporting bugs?

silvermountain | # 20 | 2009-11-21, 19:53 | Report

Last time I checked this effort was not flagged as 'needed/mandatory' or whatever wording the page used. I also believe it's been a well known point of frustration for a long time.

What is the timing on SSO?