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Gadgety is offline Gadgety
2009-11-23 , 23:29
Posts: 220 | Thanked: 129 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#41
Thank you! This is turning into a rather useful thread!
 
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chemist is offline chemist
2009-11-24 , 01:30
Administrator | Posts: 1,036 | Thanked: 2,018 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Germany
#42
Originally Posted by BillyBobski View Post
Uh, yes, but compiling modules and patching kernels may be just a little beyond the OP right now. Or maybe not. My reading of it was that it is, yours obviously differs. Perhaps you might suggest Gentoo or Linux from Scratch, but I'll still stick with Ubuntu and the like for a complete beginner.
my brother started his linux career with slackware about one year ago, I told him it will be hell but he insisted to try. with just a little of my help he managed to have a full blown slackware running on his thinkpad within weeks, a usable system he had after a couple of hours. your learning experience is that high you just blow. there is no point of "well I just use the system which is there till I got over my lazy times" no you are forced to learn to have a usable system. he is still calling for help from time to time because he gets stuck with something and wants to revert or retry another path but doesnt know what to google to get the right answers. the ubuntu thing is for people who stick to windows behaviour and try linux but not for people who like to become a master of the dark side (most terminals I know are with black as background colour)
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useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
Last edited by chemist; 2009-11-24 at 01:35.
 
mattmull is offline mattmull
2009-11-24 , 02:08
Posts: 29 | Thanked: 6 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#43
Lots of good info here. My take is the distro really doesn't matter too much in the beginning, just focus on learning on how to things from the command line. UI changes from distro to distro, but once you know the command line, you can hop on multiple versions of *nix and be comfortable. Try learning things like:

-Learn a shell editor (vi, emacs, etc...)
-Get comfortable where things are (/etc, /usr, /var, etc...)
-Learn about environment variables
-Learn about special command line options, like piping, redirection, etc..
-Try writing and running a simple shell script
-Manually edit config files (things like Xorg.conf, hosts, etc...)
-Kill processes
-Try configuring and runnings services like dhcp, sshd, tftp, etc...
-Download source packages, build, and install

One thing that helped me the most way back when, was trying to install something like the enlightenment window manager from source. It taught me about dependencies, libraries, Makefiles and source code, getting around build issues, and configuring X.

I've been a Linux developer for about 8 years now, and I use Ubuntu as my primary development system. I still do about 90% of things on the command line, with the exception of the web browser, email, and my source editor...the rest is nothing but consoles
 
DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2009-11-24 , 17:30
Posts: 607 | Thanked: 450 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Washington, DC
#44
I second Gadgety's thanks for a very useful thread. But I would ask if people could narrow the choice of distros down based on the following:

If I want a distro that uses as many of the same components as Maemo 5, what should I choose?

In other words, when faced with the choice between Gnome and KDE, is Maemo using one or the other as its base? I read about Qt in other threads and I wonder if some distros use it and others don't. I know there must be other Linux distinctions but I'm too much a n00b to know what they are.

Also, can anyone recommend a downloadable and printable introduction to Linux for new users (including but not limited to the command line)?

Or, does anyone have a book they'd recommend (ideally something shorter and cheaper than O'Reilly's 1000 page, $50 "Linux in a Nutshell").?
 
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SubCore is offline SubCore
2009-11-24 , 17:40
Posts: 850 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Vienna, Austria
#45
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
If I want a distro that uses as many of the same components as Maemo 5, what should I choose?

In other words, when faced with the choice between Gnome and KDE, is Maemo using one or the other as its base? I read about Qt in other threads and I wonder if some distros use it and others don't. I know there must be other Linux distinctions but I'm too much a n00b to know what they are.
Maemo (5) is debian-based. there are many flavours of debian-based distros, the best known being Ubuntu (which, incidentally, is what i would recommend to a beginner).
the strongest argument for choosing something debian-based is probably the debian packaging system, which is present in Maemo as well.

the choice between Gnome and KDE is really a choice about personal preferences. Maemo 5 is using Gnome/GTK+ as basis for hildon (= Maemo 5 UI), but that will change with Maemo 6 / Harmattan, which will be Qt (=KDE Toolkit) based. most current debian flavours install Gnome by default.

anyways, you'll most likely have both toolkits installed, since you will most likely use applications of both of those families - under Maemo as well.
 
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thecursedfly is offline thecursedfly
2009-11-24 , 17:55
Posts: 243 | Thanked: 198 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#46
Maybe you can try the "Linux for dummies 9th edition (2009)" book/ebook (I've also heard it's not hard to find illegally on the web.. :B ).

But I rather suggest the link in the previous page regarding the command line, there's a pdf version too. Easy to understand and well explained as far as I have read.
And I'm sure there are plenty of similar free resources on the web, you just need to search a bit (and of course, other people's suggestions are welcome).
Anyway, other than the command line, it's just graphical stuff that you'll be able to use as you use any Windows I think.

The GTK/QT/other debate is quite confusing actually, since some of the best apps are for the one, and some for the others, so you either have to look for a lesser "perfect" alternative, or install all the additional stuff... or am I making confusion with Gnome/KDE/other? lol, as you see I'm not a Linux user either (so far, but I may become one soon).. just following the Linux world from a distance since some time ago.
 
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SubCore is offline SubCore
2009-11-24 , 18:06
Posts: 850 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Vienna, Austria
#47
Originally Posted by thecursedfly View Post
The GTK/QT/other debate is quite confusing actually, since some of the best apps are for the one, and some for the others, so you either have to look for a lesser "perfect" alternative, or install all the additional stuff... or am I making confusion with Gnome/KDE/other?
no, you are correct. "Gnome" and "KDE" are just names for the ecosystem as a whole, but the things Gnome/KDE apps actually need to function are the Toolkits - GTK+ and Qt, respectively.

there might be some additional differences, for example a standard KDE app might rely on artsd, while the Gnome equivalent to that is pulseaudio. both are audio servers intended to enable the use of the sound card for more than one application.
 
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thecursedfly is offline thecursedfly
2009-11-24 , 18:36
Posts: 243 | Thanked: 198 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#48
thx for the clarification SubCore, I thought it was something like that.. x)

that brings me a couple of questions I hope somebody can answer:
- assume I want to install two applications, one QT and one GTK on my pc, without having Gnome or KDE; what is the size of each toolkit (mainly GTK and QT) when I'm about to install it? (excluding the application specific data, and specific dependencies like the audio servers you mentioned)
- wanting to install a Kubuntu application (ex. Konqueror/Amarok) on my Ubuntu, do I need only the QT toolkit, or does it require the whole KDE ?

thx for the eventual answers
 
mattmull is offline mattmull
2009-11-24 , 18:54
Posts: 29 | Thanked: 6 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#49
Originally Posted by thecursedfly View Post
thx for the clarification SubCore, I thought it was something like that.. x)

that brings me a couple of questions I hope somebody can answer:
- assume I want to install two applications, one QT and one GTK on my pc, without having Gnome or KDE; what is the size of each toolkit (mainly GTK and QT) when I'm about to install it? (excluding the application specific data, and specific dependencies like the audio servers you mentioned)
- wanting to install a Kubuntu application (ex. Konqueror/Amarok) on my Ubuntu, do I need only the QT toolkit, or does it require the whole KDE ?

thx for the eventual answers
The base toolkits aren't too large for either, I think gtk/glib together is probably ~30-40 megs installed give or take. Not sure off the top of my head how big the QT libraries are.

The second question really depends on the apps. Most KDE/Gnome apps will depend on the kde and gnome base libraries respectively, which might also depend on other things, which can become pretty nested. At a minimum, it will probably require something along the lines of kde-base and kde-libs, and something like Amarok will probably depend on some kind of kde audio libraries as well. Using something like Ubuntu or Kubuntu, if you want to install a certain package, it will automatically install all additional dependencies for you.

For instance I use Gnome as my desktop, but I much prefer konsole over gnome-terminal. I don't have every KDE package installed, just enough to support konsole and a few other KDE apps.
 
DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2009-11-24 , 19:12
Posts: 607 | Thanked: 450 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Washington, DC
#50
Originally Posted by thecursedfly View Post
Maybe you can try the "Linux for dummies 9th edition (2009)" book/ebook (I've also heard it's not hard to find illegally on the web.. :B ).
I can afford to buy it if it's worth it. Whether it's worth it is my question.

At half the price and half the size ($25 and 500 pages) of the O'Reilly "Linux in a Nutshell" it was on my potential list but, I was really hoping for something around 100 - 200 pages that could/should be read cover to cover.

Originally Posted by thecursedfly View Post
But I rather suggest the link in the previous page regarding the command line, there's a pdf version too. Easy to understand and well explained as far as I have read.
And I'm sure there are plenty of similar free resources on the web, you just need to search a bit (and of course, other people's suggestions are welcome).
I already pulled down the command line PDFs that have been referenced here. I was looking for the rest of the story - what's a distribution? what's a package? what's GTK or Qt? what's a home directory? why isn't /home the home directory? what's root? why do I want it? etc.

So far, the best links I've found to the sort of guide I think I'm looking for are:

http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/cont...rview-chapters
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Linux_For_Newbies
 
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