N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors - Page 62 - maemo.org

javispedro | # 611 | 2009-12-03, 10:46 | Report

eager hyena
cavorting bats moaning small
catapult frowning

And now please STOP

and let's all go back to bashing the DDP's delay, and delay, and delay, and delay.

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Hrw | # 612 | 2009-12-03, 11:20 | Report

Originally Posted by javispedro View Post

back to bashing the DDP's delay, and delay, and delay, and delay.

and lack of warranty, lack of, lack...

anidel | # 613 | 2009-12-03, 11:24 | Report

Originally Posted by Hrw View Post

and lack of warranty, lack of, lack...

Quim will try to help whoever got his device discounted through DDP and finds himself having issue with the device itself.

That's enough for me and I will then probably buy it.

anidel | # 614 | 2009-12-03, 11:26 | Report

Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post

Are you sure - can you provide a reference for that comment?

The last comment from Quim on the subject (quoted below) toes the DDP line - they will "do their best" to replace your device if it is found to be defective upon receipt. The implication is that there is nothing Nokia or Maemo can or will do to help you should your €250 purchase develop a fault after 7 days.

I'm also a little uncomfortable that the commitment to replace devices within the first week has now been downgraded from "will replace" to "will do our best to replace", hopefully this is just due to a poorly worded sentence on Quims part.

Oh give me a break!
If the device is DOA or shows issues during the first week then OF COURSE DDP will substitute it to you.
If the device has a "factory" issue that appears after the first week then Quim will do his best to help.

How can you read differently?

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zerojay | # 615 | 2009-12-03, 11:26 | Report

Yeah, I understand how that can be worrying. Personally, I'm not terribly bothered by it. Quim's always *always* done everything possible to make things right, going above and beyond the call of duty many times before...

I know that doesn't exactly help anyone when they're paying a still sizable amount for a device though.

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Milhouse | # 616 | 2009-12-03, 12:07 | Report

Originally Posted by anidel View Post

Oh give me a break!
If the device is DOA or shows issues during the first week then OF COURSE DDP will substitute it to you.
If the device has a "factory" issue that appears after the first week then Quim will do his best to help.

How can you read differently?

Calm down, fella.

Read Quims quote - it's ambiguous. If the device "comes with a defect from the factory that lets your device unusable, we will do our best to get you a replacement.". Great, so what if it develops a fault after the first week, ie. it doesn't arrive from the factory with an issue but an issue occurs shortly afterwards - what then? For example, a ribbon cable slips off, or the screen dies or it gets stuck in a reboot loop? Just the kind of problems that HAVE occurred with previous devices through no fault of the user, and are circumstances NOT covered by Quims comment, so what then? I know Quim is a decent chap and I'm pretty sure he'll do what he can to help but I often feel the rest of Nokia conspire against him at times so he may not always come through despite his best intentions, and his comment - based on his words alone and not reading what I would like to read between the lines - is actually not at all different from the basic DDP warranty. Anything else you believe he is saying is based on assumptions, and you might be right - or you might be wrong.

So please, you give me a break, don't go putting words into the mouths of others - I'd rather hear it from Quim, thanks. Call me a pedant, but I don't like ambiguity when money is involved.

Last edited by Milhouse; 2009-12-03 at 12:11.

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anidel | # 617 | 2009-12-03, 12:17 | Report

I am calm

sorry if it looked differently.
It's just that this is common sense/

The issue so far has been that there is no warranty outside the "first week" from DDP.

Quim intervened saying that yes we'll try to help you if the defect comes from the factory. I.E. it's our fault and not yours.
And it was clear he wrote that to calm us down and make us confident in this programme.
Not to make things worse saying that we'll see if we can EVEN change the device in the first faulty week.

There are several faults that come from the factory that develops after weeks. For example a batch of N800 developed a faulty rotating camera often after more than a week and in that case they'll help you getting a working one as clearly that defect "comes from the factory" and not because of a misuse.

And you are reading "comes from the factory" as "come ALREADY DEAD (DOA) from the factory". While this is NOT the case to me and, to me, this is quite clear.

I shouted because "we" (i.e. not just you and i.e. that shout was not intended to offend you) are pinpointing here every single word that Quim states. He's not a PR guy and tries to be as clear as possible and I think he was quite clear.
He wrote that in order to help us not to make things worse.

And I don't want to play the game "you are putting words in someone else mouth" as we're grown up enough to be able to skip it.

Aniello

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YoDude | # 618 | 2009-12-03, 13:06 | Report

One thing that might be noted... at least in the case of this release, is that the people most likely to help in calming the masses, settling the nerves of the throng that have descended upon this forum if you will, are in here waiting.

In the future, this approach may have to be rethought. To borrow another members analogy, I'm afraid the lone 300 "Spartans" who received their units at the summit and are valiantly defending Maemo's virtues may not get the reinforcements they need in time.

In another random observation perhaps the size and weight of the N900 has attracted a higher than normal percentage of "football hooligans" who see it as their weapon of choice inside a stadium or Pub.

In any event, it's getting crazy out there.

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johnkzin | # 619 | 2009-12-03, 15:46 | Report

Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post

Read Quims quote - it's ambiguous.

That quote is ambiguous.

Quim's reputation is not.

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Milhouse | # 620 | 2009-12-03, 16:10 | Report

Originally Posted by anidel View Post

I shouted because "we" (i.e. not just you and i.e. that shout was not intended to offend you) are pinpointing here every single word that Quim states. He's not a PR guy and tries to be as clear as possible and I think he was quite clear.
He wrote that in order to help us not to make things worse.

The trouble is, it's not clear, far from it. The language is couched in potentially restrictive terms - why mention "comes with a defect from the factory" at all, that's restrictive and/or confusing and potentially eliminates faults that develop through normal usage. Duff pixels? Nope. Ribbon cable? Nope. A whole host of problems could arise that won't be covered, so no help from Quim - is this what Quim is saying? Or is he saying that look, we'll just do our best on an individual basis OK, but we can't make any promises? The latter is very different to the former, and one I'd be happy with simply because it will be on a best efforts basis without specifics rather than only offering to fix problems that occur relatively soon after delivery (ie. "from the factory", his words not mine). I know Quim is a decent bloke and will want to bend over backwards to help, but it's not always certain he'll be able to do so - he doesn't run Nokia (sadly).

While we can read between the lines and incorrectly assume Quim will try to fix problems he hasn't explicitly commited to, you could find yourself disappointed when your device breaks through normal usage but not because of a problem that it had "from the factory" (whatever that means).

I'm not taking issue with Quim directly, but I think you are potentially committing him to something he hasn't said, or at least not said directly.

Last edited by Milhouse; 2009-12-03 at 16:32.