attila77 | # 11 | 2009-12-12, 23:20 | Report

I still feel maemo.org could use something of a QAmaster position, to avoid the current situation with testing, which I'm starting to have serious doubts about. The problems seem to stem from various sources, starting with tester fatigue, no clear notification of apps to test all the way to the unequal number of people interested in particular apps. A QAmaster could also cooperate in linking developers with proper pointers/solutions for their problems (i.e. not just a 'doesnt work' or 'not smurfified' which they don't have a clue about), and improving communications with b.m.o/bugmaster (testers do not necessarily (know to) file meaningful bugs) and the debmaster (to write automated check for problems identified as common). To tell the truth, this is not a revolutionary idea - most linux distros already do this (in teams even), but I think we're approaching the point where Maemo also needs a coordinated way of doing this. Before someone misunderstands - a QAmaster would not *replace* the testers, but be *complementary* to them, making the testing process more streamlined so we don't have apps lingering in testing for months and helping the developers that have encountered blockers to resolve them quickly and painlessly.

Laughing Man | # 12 | 2009-12-13, 01:58 | Report

Yes, it is indeed a chicken and egg problem. To get more applications they need to be tested. Yet to test means to potentially risk your device (not brick but might require a reflash).

I don't think there really will be a solution until someone finds a way to do a full backup of your device. That way you could backup your device. Then install testing apps, if something goes horribly wrong. Report the issue and just restore the backup.

I know I had my n800's image backed up so I could easily restore it when I needed too. But so far given the N900's different partitoning layout it doesn't seem to work the same way (can't just plug it in and do a backup of the entire filesystem with partimage).

Rushmore | # 13 | 2009-12-13, 02:17 | Report

Android and iPhone's dev community was fueled by Google and Apple providing "easy" SDK access and resources (for the most part) and heavily involved with organizing the dev communities. Their marketing was also involved to provide a clear vision and presentation of the OS to the initial dev community. Money was also provided as incentive for some initial apps and then the potential of making money from the market, created the self-perpetuating action fueled by consumer demand. Hence my point about a micro-economy.

If this same level of dev foundation building is being fostered by Nokia for Maemo 5, it is transparent to me. Nokia seems to be spread out with too many OS frameworks- (Maemo 5,6 and S60).

Seems to me Nokia is leveraging too much on the current community and not making much of an effort themselves (IMO).

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Last edited by Rushmore; 2009-12-13 at 02:25.

rm42 | # 14 | 2009-12-13, 03:13 | Report

Speaking for myself, I have a few projects in the stove, but it is hard to get motivated when I have been waiting for my device since Nov 5, when I placed my order. Especially, when people who ordered after me have received the device already. I have never seen such a disaster of a release.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...=dell&page=129

I mean, the situation is so bad that people are starting to complain to the Better Business Bureau. Could there be that there is a saboteur at NokiaUSA? I mean, how can they be so incompetent? Dell is flabbergasted at Nokia's handling of our orders.

I repeat, with all this going on it is hard to maintain motivation as a developer. I do hope things improve soon.

hypnotik | # 15 | 2009-12-13, 03:14 | Report

Not to mention a bunch of VCs put up $100MM in an "iFund" to incubate iPhone app development.

RevdKathy | # 16 | 2009-12-13, 09:09 | Report

Suggest a few people willing to test show up at the 'bug-fest' on Tuesday evening on IRC.

The other thing that I personally have found helpful is contacting the dev of something I'm interested in, and volunteering to test one-to-one. That way I can get an honest opinion of where it is in the system (still unstable or stable but rough at the edges) and make an imforned choice about testing. And I can give back the sort of feedback that the dev wants rather than just voting. Not sure how all the debs would react to this wau of doing stuff, though.

bgrigor | # 17 | 2009-12-13, 10:02 | Report

I'm inclined to agree.

I would add that putting a cell phone into an Internet Tablet changes the target market completely. Suddenly, a very niche enthusiast product becomes appealing to a mass consumer and business audience, with corresponding expectations. And a corresponding need for strong product management and marketing. My main quibble with the N900 so far is the apps seem to lack strong product management which results inconsistent function and incomplete feature sets.

In my case, I'm looking at the N900 as a business tool. One of the first things I did was install Nokia PC Suite on my laptop and hot-sync my Outlook database to the N900. Instantly, I had over 3000 contacts and a few hundred appointments, tasks and notes in the N900. But now I need an app suite that understands what it means to work with and manage over 3000 contacts and a complex schedule.

Here are some examples.
- I often want to search for a contact by typing in part of their phone number because my phone bill shows numbers not names.
- When I look up a call in the call history, I want to know the duration of the call for possible billing purposes.
- When I select a contact in the Phone App, I sometimes want to edit and save the number before dialing.
- How about complex meeting recurrence, such as 4th Tuesday of every month?
- In Outlook, I use categories to group contacts.
- In Outlook, I can click "Map" on a contact's form and Outlook launches a map showing the address.

As near as I can tell so far, the current N900 apps don't do these things, but I think they could if there was some overall product management to establish the design and integration of the various components of the suite.

Cheers!

Brad

406NotAcceptable | # 18 | 2009-12-13, 11:00 | Report

By that I meant to the largest markets available from the carriers store on contract. E.g. Walk into a Vodaphone shop in the UK (for example, ideally the whole of europe) and get the phone on Vodaphone, or a AT&T store in the US.

This is true. There really isn't a good framework and IDE integration available for Maemo. Windows users have to download a linux distro and run the emulator in a virtual machine.

Compare this to Android where you simply download Eclipse and the SDK installer does the rest. Nokia need to release a better set of tools for more apps developers to consider Maemo.

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Last edited by 406NotAcceptable; 2009-12-13 at 11:03.

Dexter1759 | # 19 | 2009-12-13, 11:44 | Report

How safe are the apps in Extras-Testing? I've seen lots of people posting on these forums warning people not to add Testing or Devel. I can understand Devel being a bit more "dangerous" but surely if an App makes it to testing it must be "optified"? (don't really know what that means but know it relates to the "limited" application install space, but not sure how/why)

Thanks.

attila77 | # 20 | 2009-12-13, 15:20 | Report

@Dexter1759:

Not really. There is no testing to get into testing Versions in testing are identical to devel, with the difference of the author asking for tester feedback. Now, this *should* mean a more polished package (with potential to eventually enter Extras proper), but there are no guarantees - it's testing exactly to reveal problems. Statistically you will run into less problems than you would in -devel, but that's about it.