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2005-12-18
, 12:00
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Posts: 477 |
Thanked: 118 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
@ Munich, Germany
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#2
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A suggestion? Yes: you could try to reboot.
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2005-12-18
, 14:57
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Posts: 13 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#3
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Originally Posted by Jerome
This is one line I was hoping never to see applied to these devices. We're running Debian here, right? Not WinCE?A suggestion? Yes: you could try to reboot.
-j
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2005-12-18
, 15:35
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Posts: 1,361 |
Thanked: 115 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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#4
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I'm a bit torn on how to view the 770, but here's the thing. It's not a PC and doesn't have all the faculties of one. Not only that, but it's still in it's infancy and is going to be prone to crashes and memory leaks that I think us early adopters will have to grit our teeth and bare. I'm venturing that the crashing device may have been thrown into hibernation again and again.
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2005-12-18
, 16:05
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#5
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Originally Posted by Hedgecore
Well, that's what you get if you insist on developing a device that will run essentially a desktop version of Linux without swap space and subsequently give it the bare minimum of RAM.I'm a bit torn on how to view the 770, but here's the thing. It's not a PC and doesn't have all the faculties of one. Not only that, but it's still in it's infancy and is going to be prone to crashes and memory leaks that I think us early adopters will have to grit our teeth and bare. I'm venturing that the crashing device may have been thrown into hibernation again and again.
Some call it "infancy", others might call it "stupid". Who's to say? For my money, the OP is dead-on right: this is Linux, not WinCE. Rebooting should not be an advice -- ever. If it is, there's something very seriously wrong with the 770...
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2005-12-18
, 17:53
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Posts: 32 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#6
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
Something is wrong, the included software has bugs. Several of the applications, including the web browser and the video player can get stuck and leave processes consuming memory. If you have terminal installed you can ps to find them and kill them (which is exactly what you do on desktop Debian when a process gets hung and you don't want to reboot). But rebooting works also and is good advice for someone who doesn't want to get into the terminal.Rebooting should not be an advice -- ever. If it is, there's something very seriously wrong with the 770...
I'm not sure many folks have grappled with the idea of developing a complete hardware platform using open source methods. It means you have to have to release a product that isn't finished. Then you improve it, except rather than improving it all by yourself the whole world gets a chance to improve it with you. Ari (who works at Nokia on Open Source development and on the 770 in particular) has a good post talking about how Nokia is trying to do this with the 770, and giving a nod to the memory-handling problems in particular.
Anyway, the software will improve. It'll improve faster if more people work to specifically characterize problems and create solutions for them instead proclaiming that the device is "stupid".
Mike
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2005-12-18
, 19:57
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Posts: 155 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ central georgia, usa
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#7
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Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
"Reboot" shouldn't be in the Debian lexicon, but what's a hacker to do?Well, that's what you get if you insist on developing a device that will run essentially a desktop version of Linux without swap space and subsequently give it the bare minimum of RAM.
Some call it "infancy", others might call it "stupid". Who's to say? For my money, the OP is dead-on right: this is Linux, not WinCE. Rebooting should not be an advice -- ever. If it is, there's something very seriously wrong with the 770...
I'm sure I won't be alone in working on the swap-space issue. As soon as I put in a 1Gb rs-mmc, I won't be worrying about taking it out any time soon.
I think we're also going to need a little more of Linux... there's a HOWTO use USB to network from a Linux box, for example. The only problem is the commands aren't on the 770...
Paul
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2005-12-18
, 20:15
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Posts: 42 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#8
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it helps to use the load/memory applet. When browsing, if you start to run low on memory, restart the browser before any popups about low memory appear, i.e. before things start to get "wonky". Also, try to avoid using the bookmark manager - instead tap the globe to access your bookmarks. Just a work-around of course.
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2005-12-18
, 21:15
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#9
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Originally Posted by putkowski
I once mused about using a memory card as swap; until I realized that is one of the most self-destructive things one could do: flash memory has a finite number of writes and using one for swap will wear it out faster than you'd think possible. It wouldn't be that much of a problem if the 770 had 2 expansion slots: one could use a cheap, small card for swap and basically throw it away when "used up". You won't be that happy when your 1 gig card starts losing sectors faster than 40+ year old hair."Reboot" shouldn't be in the Debian lexicon, but what's a hacker to do?
I'm sure I won't be alone in working on the swap-space issue. As soon as I put in a 1Gb rs-mmc, I won't be worrying about taking it out any time soon.
I think we're also going to need a little more of Linux... there's a HOWTO use USB to network from a Linux box, for example. The only problem is the commands aren't on the 770...
Paul
I still think the best bet for the 770's success is if, in the spirit of the Sharp Zaurus, a completely Nokia-less distribution is cobbled together. Imagine a Debian-based distro with normal user management, non-restricted file management, maybe IceWM or E as its window manager instead of resource-clogging Gnome... Heck, even the memory leakage is due to badly implemented userspace software rather than problems at the O/S level.
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2005-12-18
, 21:17
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#10
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Originally Posted by waddell
That's almost word for word the kind of advice people were given in the Windows 3.x days.it helps to use the load/memory applet. When browsing, if you start to run low on memory, restart the browser before any popups about low memory appear, i.e. before things start to get "wonky". Also, try to avoid using the bookmark manager - instead tap the globe to access your bookmarks. Just a work-around of course.
This is not the Linux way. It's not even the Way Of Mrs. Cosmopilite.
Is there a setting I'm missing? I've tried setting the cache for the web browser at the highest and at zero- same probem (I haven't dug any deeper into the OS). eventualy massive slowdon to freeze up. Single apples at a time run great, but when the web is incorporated (this is a 'web pad') the problem start.
Any suggestions? Thanks! (otherwise I'm having a lot of fun with it)
KH
Last edited by heckler770; 2005-12-19 at 06:36. Reason: please excuse the multitude of typos