And people critize Nokia constructively until you show up. Expected.

Check DaveP1's post to see how it's supposed to be done without giving an impression that you are just a troll living in mom's basement. That's my troll feeding for the day. Hope you aren't very hungry.

it's not that developing an application for anything is easy and a noob can just pick it up n do it in 5 min. it's that it makes developing easier by taking out all the small annoying things that interrupt your flow or just plain annoy you enuf that u can't be bothered. It's also a very good marketing method too. if it's made as easy as possible to install and develop without a million steps more people will try it. take a look at what nokia's plans for symbian are. They have removed more then 300 prompts so it's simpler and quicker to get to and do what you want. Because thats what people want. We don't want 15 steps just to something when other platforms and i mean development platforms can do the same in 3. if they took the same approach to their user development tools as they did to their new OS's they'd get more people attempting to make apps and games.
It's a numbers game. The more people who can do something the more you are going to get. yes you'll have **** fart apps but that fart app everyone knows about. you ask someone who doesn't have an n900 or any maemo device or used one to name a maemo app and they can't. but everybody remembers the fart app on iphone. (i'm generalizing)
windows OS has the market share. make a development tool kit for windows xp/vista/7 not a 4gb vm with no user friendlyness.

i'm not a developer but i like to dabble in scripts and modify things that i need for something. if i was to pick an enviorment to learn it would be the easiest one with the most user friendly experience.

It's all well and good if you already know about maemo but elitist groups never made mac the money, it was marketing to the joe public, making it all nice and easy and visual.

andriod is going down the same route, simple, user friendly development, so joe public can make an attempt and not get lost to bad.

don't get me wrong. i want n900 and maemo to succeed and i want it to be amazing. i just look at it and see what i'd like to be there for it to make a mark so we can enjoy it and let others enjoy it too. the more people that use maemo 5 the better it will be for us all.

That's great and I hope developers heard about it. Unfortunately, I don't see any mention of it when you click "developers" from www.nokia.com. They did issue a press release but there was a noticeable lack of award amounts (although last program apparently did hand out a quarter million dollars).

Still, why does Nokia hide these things? This is the first I've heard about it so I searched Maemo.org. This year's contest has never been mentioned before your post. Last year's contest was mentioned twice in Talk - once, regarding the results possibly being announced at Nokia World, and once in a plea for help with the contest that garnered no responses.

I won't be entering the contest but knowing that it exists gives me hope for the future.

agree with u there DaveP1.

DaveP1, it mystifies me too. I have no answer for you.

Texrat, I don't know if you can talk about this. But do different parts of the company actually talk to each other?

No offense but... are you a developer ?

I'm a software engineer, and I know Java / C / C++ (and assembly but nowadays I don't use it anymore) since at least 10 years.
I already have developed applications using GTK, OpenGL, SDL and many other libraries.
I started development when I was 13, then made my first programs in assembly on HP48 then on TI89. I moved on x86, I always learned programmation languages bymyself, I also developed on S60, on mobile device with MIDP etc... Finally I graduated with a master in computer sciences, and now I'm a software engineer and a project manager. The point is not to expose my life to everyone, just to highlight the fact that I have knowledge - at least a little - in development.

And when I say that the documention of maemo is a crap, it's because it's really a crap.

You say that if I go to google I'll find how to develop in QT or OpenGL. But the problem is not the language, it's its implentation on maemo. How is implemented OpenGL ES in maemo ? Where is the detailled API specific to N900 ? What are the libraries I need to compile and launch my program ? Any simple example that shows how to do that ??

And if I want to make a debian package with MADDE to distribute my program. Ok the doc is here : type "mad qmake", "mad make", "mad-admin dpkgbuild", and you're done. Alright. How do I add files in my package ? How do I put a desktop icon ? How do I optify my package ? Nothing's well explained, you have to search for hours and make a lot of tests to finally do what you want. And it works, with patience it's always possible to find a solution.

But if the doc was well made, I we had a clear doc of what APIs are on N900, if there were clear examples for each library we want to use, we, as developer, would gain SO MUCH time. Moreover, it would attract professional developers. Actually, all the packages available are at 95% packages maintained by volunteers, implied in maemo.org. That's cool, it's the community. But what about other developers ? How can Nokia want them to develop for a platform is the development is totally obscure ??

And have you take a look at the VM SDK ? Have you tried to use it ? After, try to download the android SDK, to view the difference. I don't like android nor iPhone OS, I believe in the debian model and to the free software. But if Nokia leaves the docs and SDK as is, I am really scared for the future of maemo...

Not in the strictest sense. Never been employed as such. I'm more of a systems administrator.. however an I am quite adept at ruby, perl, php, web development, and am fairly decent with C++. I have written some applications that I've needed through the past on Linux.. but I have zero 3D experience.

So if your intent was to try and discredit me by saying I don't know coding - You're right in-so-far as I have no 3D coding experience. However, the same way that I recommended earlier in the thread someone to exclude the OS from their search strings to learn PyQT development I was telling you. This method does work. Maybe 3D is different.. I would have thought that as long as you coded a OpenGL app in QT that you would be good to go.

I have said, several times, over and over again, and here it is again, and then I'll repeat it in case you miss it this time..

I agree *maemo's* documentation is crap.
..1 ... 2... 3...
I agree *MAEMO'S* documentation is crap.

However, I still believe you can figure out how to develop for maemo in a given language learning development in that language on other platforms. You just may not know maemo-specific calls such as hanging up the phone.

I also even linked directly to Android's page and showed their reference on the website to all Android internal stuff .. and specifically said we needed that. And yes, I have used android's SDK.. I have developed apps on Android.. I made myself an RSS feed, a database tracking thing, and some small trinkets that I use by myself. I did not, and do not, upload to the android Market. But I do have experience with it.

And, not *all* of my questions were answered by the Android documentation either.. I ran into a few snags where just googling for *java* gave me the results I needed.. NOT Android.

I'm not exactly sure where your hostility is coming from.

wohohoh stop My intention was not hostile at all ! It was just a question to know if you already have developed something or not, not an attack

All I wanted to say is that without a strong doc maemo will not attract developers, and the doc need to be cleared, simplified and unified. That's it.

And I'm not saying that maemo's documentation must covers the programming languages or libraries (C / C++ / Qt / OpenGL ES), just the way to implement them. It's obvious that developers don't need to have a full C++ reference in the maemo doc ! And it's obvious too that if I search how to do something, I'll certainly achieve to do it. But if it's possible to have quickly the answer to my questions in the doc, it will be perfect. (for example, I miss a hand recognition method as an input, to replace or complete the virtual keyboard. Now try to search in the doc how to implement such a thing, good luck. Maybe it's in there, but it's so crappy that you have 99 percent chances not finding what you want. By chance the community is here to help)

And I say that very peacefully, all I want is a good doc for a platform that deserves it, I don't want to fight with people, especially people from the maemo community

No argument with that.. my only intent here was at this very moment in time, at this point, we don't have a very good base to work from. But that it still is possible to develop ... it's just a little harder to work out the kinks without a decent reference material.

And it's a shame really.. because of all the devices out there - Dev'ing for Maemo is the closest I can see to developing for a Desktop OS. So if you already know Qt/C++ development.. it should be cake to switch to Maemo. But as has been said.. without proper docs it makes it more of a pain that it should be.