hex900 | # 71 | 2010-01-22, 21:19 | Report

This sums up everything perfectly in a nice, pithy way. And as Nokia continues to market and extend Maemo out there, better get used to it and not stress about things. We have enough to help fix so we don't have to come up with "yet another app" or whatever Haus3r said he likes to see.

Interesting post by Haus3r. I haven't had a good laugh in a while. Reminds me of a manager I had once who gave pep-talks like this when things were getting to stressful and people fighting with each other.

Oh, I bet ya saw me coming a mile away...

First, let's re-establish Nokia's plans that is well known (they've had to do something to calm investors down). Nokia is on record saying the N900 is setting a new direction for their smartphones. It is marketed to an entirely different group of people than previous Maemo tablets. It is the best selling N-series they have had. The first reviews hitting most any retail site were from blatantly non-technical people. Most non-tech people I know have heard of it (helps when much of the news on Nokia on CNBC and in the press in general starts with "The N900..."). However, most of the people I know, even long-time linux devs, haven't heard of the previous tablets.

So saying that most of the people who purchased it were "tech people" and it was marketed for a specialty crowd is not even close to fact. Don't take my word for it, check out Nokia's executive statements, marketing, what they've been telling their investors, press releases and etc., etc. If this is what they meant to do, didn't work out so well and the news didn't get to the CEO - he missed that memo.

Obviously, ranting doesn't speed anything up... wait, actually it does. I'd give examples, but if you think about it for a few more seconds, you will come up with 10. Assuming it doesn't in Nokia's case, then they need to use forums like other G500 companies: listen to customers, see what trends they are missing, establish patterns, change direction, supplement their market research and figure out if they are spending too much energy in the wrong areas and not enough in others. Plenty of other things to do with data like this, but you get the point. Pretty much Business 101 these days.

Seems as positive as you try to be you fail to see the positive in healthy feedback. Some might call it negative, but the successful people and companies actually see it as an opportunity to improve. Nokia has lost a lot of land in the smartphone area in just 12-months. They should look at the N900 as a way to learn what they got right and especially what they really messed up. Since Nokia's stated direction is Maemo-driven smartphones at the upper end (Symbian will live on as well, but not in higher end smartphones), they need to get on the right page to see why other manufacturers have passed them up so quickly.

I'd go on, but the bottom line is you are looking at this backwards. It's very healthy for all involved. People aren't patient and aren't going to be because you threw in a pep talk. Well, perhaps there is someone who read your post and said "wow! that is right, I need to be more patient, ignore the WONTFIXes, delayed to Harmattan which we don't know if it'll hit the N900 and just wait for the N9000 so I can spend another $700 and hopefully bluetooth works! I am so wrong for thinking I'm the customer who paid a chunk o change for this - Nokia is the one who needs ME to be patient for them to 'get around to it.' Boy was I wrong."

I do agree with some of the subsequent posts and some of what you said to the extent that folks need to be ready to embrace a different demographic than "tech people". Though, I think part of the disclaimer people sign for an iPhone now states "upon exiting the iPhone community, you'll be legally required to spend a month with Maemo" so I don't think you have to worry about those cursed people.

Jaffa | # 72 | 2010-01-22, 21:25 | Report

This is off-topic[1], and the reply was otherwise excellent - but there seems to be an increasing trend for people to say "the council should do this". VDVsx didn't say "the council should organise maemo.org's participation in Google Summer of Code"; he said he wanted to do it and asked if the council were aware of anyone else doing it - and, if not, could he have our blessing.

The council are supposed to facilitate the community, to try and prevent duplication etc. Not do everything!

Has anyone else noticed this, or is just me?

[1] Actually, in the scope of "the future of this community", I suppose it's on-topic.

fatalsaint | # 73 | 2010-01-22, 21:28 | Report

Perfectly agreed.. don't get me wrong - and that is why I said "or whoever".. I'm completely aware that is as much our job as it is theirs to do this.

I was just making the comment because I myself am horrible at such things, and thus would do nobody any good if I tried to take that project on. And as you say the council facilitates, if no one else is currently working on it they could perhaps find someone willing.. that sort of thing.

Gadgety | # 74 | 2010-01-22, 21:33 | Report

Gate YOUR community and maemo is dead. You want homogeniety, your society will die. If you don't succeed, Nokia will assist in killing it for you by abandonding the product. Nokia needs and wants volume. Volume brings, or even requires, requisite variety.

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Last edited by Gadgety; 2010-01-22 at 21:37.

geneven | # 75 | 2010-01-22, 21:34 | Report

No one here has yet mentioned the fmms thread.

In that thread you will see a large number of users with extreme patience contributing. I saw few hysterical negative complaints.

For me, the moral is that the current situation can be handled heroically by developers who understand how to deal with users.

The answer is not to send users with complaints to Bugzilla. The answer is to take them seriously and make it obvious that their help will in turn help them.

This place is the only game in town. I would probably go elsewhere if there was elsewhere to go. I get upset by what seems to me the elitism of the group that came to power when maemo took the place over. But there is no other place to get usable information.

It strikes me as hilarious that people complain about the amount of "noise" here, as in extraneous, unhelpful comments.

How was the level of noise when maemo was its own separate community and hadn't taken over ITT?

There was no noise. All the noise was on ITT.

Someone buys a phone and they owe help to a community? Since when? I bought a car -- what community do I owe to because of that?

I don't think that the situation here is that bad, but the powers to be have made it a bit worse than it needs to be with bad decisions and forcing together two communities that are more naturally separated.

Just some ramblings...

fatalsaint | # 76 | 2010-01-22, 21:34 | Report

Thank you. Your insight is staggering.

sjgadsby | # 77 | 2010-01-22, 21:37 | Report

1. I suspect you'd do a far better job than you allow yourself to believe.
2. Begin building the document in the wiki where others can revise and contribute. It's amazing how many people won't make that jump to start something new on a blank page but will step in to add to or fix an existing document. Heck, doing it badly, as you say you would, might cause others to be more motivated to contribute.

fatalsaint | # 78 | 2010-01-22, 21:38 | Report

I agree.. that's an excellent thread being handled very well. Not all developers want to deal with users though, at least - not that directly and interactively. Also, not always does it wind up that good. (there was at least *one* catastrophe in there, but that's to be expected and mostly ignored ).

"Took the place over"? Huh? What "power"?

Nono, you're getting it backwards. Someone buys a phone they get a phone. If they don't like something on it they call their manufacturer.

Someone comes here and expects help.. they should be willing to provide back.

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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-01-22 at 21:40.

Haus3r | # 79 | 2010-01-22, 21:45 | Report

Hello guys,
I had no idea what this would turn into, but I'm really glad that people picked up my ideas and took this discussion to the next level. That's great. It shows me that people care and that I am not alone with my thoughts.

Hello to the usual suspects RevdKathy, Texrat, fatalsaint, and hello ARJWright and all the others, glad to meet you and hear what you have to say.

Also, Id like to welcome OrangeBox to the thread - It's good to have someone from the other side here with us (but, behave ) - he has raised a couple of important points I would like to get into in just a moment.

First of all I would like to talk about a few issues I have picked up while going through all the pages:

• What kind of people are coming to join us?
• Should we be elitist or Not?
• Will Maemo continue to attract Businesses/Developers?
• Are things simple enough to be picked up by a Newcomer?
• The Future of Maemo - What can we do? (Open Question)

1. What kind of people are coming to join us?

Well, lets hope a lot will I guess what we need is a healthy mixture of people who bring the right attitude and are willing to learn, and those who bring the knowledge and the drive to help this community evolve. What we do not need/want is people only signing up to have their issues resolved without contributing at all or showing any sort of gratefulness. This does not allow the community to develop further. I know we will not be able to prevent this, but people should be encouraged to get involved and become a part.

2. Should we be elitist or Not?

Yes, I think we should be. People will quickly get used to it - and those who really contribute/help will feel at home and stay - newcomers with the same expectations equally. No more flame posts (their number has decreased!), no more exaggerated "help help helphelp meeee"-Threads. Keep your grammar clean, stay away from Capslock. Keep it constructive, and we will engage.

For people trying to disturb the peace, we should express a warning, and if they continue, that's it for them. They will have to go. Of cause people are allowed their opinion(s), and I am sure we are all interested in what is being said, but ideas need to be formulated in a clean and orderly fashion.

Rules are good, what we certainly don't want is a virtual fence, that would go too far. A virtual warning sign is enough.

3. Will Maemo continue to attract Businesses/Developers?

Tricky. What attracts them to Maemo? A Nokia competition? Their Money? xobegnaro aka "OrangeBox" has said something I find makes perfect sense:

The man is right. Totally right. Is the Maemo platform easy and competitive enough for a serious company to make the switch? Will we be able to attract those companies to the platform (we are not just talking Maemo 5 here). If I'd be the head of a software company - would I develop for Maemo? I am not so sure! It's still a niche, it's interesting, it's promising, but will it make sense to invest money&resources? Who knows, it might be dead in a few months? I have serious concerns in this matter. AngryBirds showed the type of success one could have - why not promote this (further) and show that the community needs more of these apps/Games?

Users will certainly keep develop content for the N900, but what if Nokia decides to openly abandon us? If I were a developer, I would move on: may be to the next generation, may be to another Company. And I wouldn't look back.

I have serious concerns whether Maemo will stay in the news long enough to attract more businesses to it. Will Maemo 5 remain competitive? What's your take on this, people?

4. Are things simple enough to be picked up by a Newcomer?

That's another very important point. Unfortunately I haven't used most of the facilities yet, if someone could comment on the following and rate how easy to use they are?:

• Bug Reporting
• Garage
• Submitting your Projects for Testing

5. The Future of Maemo - What can we do? (Open Question)

What can we do to ensure that Maemo 5 as well as following versions will evolve into a serious competitor for Apple&Co?

I think a great community is at the core of every successful device/OS. We are on the right track I believe, but if Nokia continues their restrictive policy they will soon face disaster. Unfinished 'Beta' Devices, delayed patches, a limited information policy. Come on. Our Patience and our wallets are limited.

By developing Maemo 6 they expect a large proportion of the existing community to make the move and provide the basis for a future one. I have my doubts that most people will do so unless Nokia puts in a bit more effort to support the current community. I know it's too early to tell how things are going to develop, only time will tell. But hey, Nokia is a large scale company, they need to make money - Im sure that shows us already how things might turn out.

I am really keeping my fingers crossed that Maemo 5 will continue receiving updates and staying on Nokia's agenda. If not, they are endangering their following Maemo adventures, and I sincerely hope that they are aware of that. It's really up to Nokia now. What they choose to do we will see, but there are signs that things will not turn out for the best. And if that happens, I might leave. And others might too.

> Will you leave?

In the meantime, let's continue working on this wonderful device to make it even better. Nokia should know that we are not easily put aside - not without a fight.

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Last edited by Haus3r; 2010-01-22 at 21:53.

geneven | # 80 | 2010-01-22, 21:51 | Report

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I have a feeling someone thinks I am OrangeBox. I am not Orangbox. I don't have the ability to BS about technology like OrangeBox, for one thing.