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fanoush |
2007-06-04
, 15:26
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Posts: 2,152 |
Thanked: 1,490 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Czech Republic
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#61
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Originally Posted by YoDude
In fact with N800 it was "Don't call us, we'll call you" and they decided based on previous work.
Originally Posted by YoDude
Not sure, search maemo garage. Many were ported though.
Originally Posted by YoDude
I was just commenting specific issue you brought up two times. Didn't read whole thread. You seem to expect quality apps for $300 worth of developer time. Also you perhaps think that $15000 is a lot of money for Nokia to spent. In my opinion the reality is vastly different so I couldn't think about any other word, sorry. Do you know how much Nokia may spent on 'useless' marketing campaigns? I guess much bigger sums go down the toilet with every such product release without us ever noticing.
Originally Posted by YoDude
I didn't take it as hostile either. Just as I already told. But indeed it is my opinion only. IMO the developer program was clever and quite inexpensive way how to get Maemo platform accepted in the market (i.e. create buzz at right places and get as much developers as possible) and it worked. Personally I think that without such program done in 2005 the platform would be dead or starving without anyone noticing and there would be no N800 at all. Now they have even Intel on board and future look promising.
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2007-06-04
, 15:38
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#62
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Actually Texrat, I may have misconstrued your meaning in your previous "try" post. It indicated to me that you no longer were going to "advocate" but rather pick and chose items from a list and "try" to get answers to items that may have already been resolved.
If this was not the case, my mistake and not yours.
The distributors sale of a Nokia web site item for $40 less is a real concern. I would like to know if I should expect more of this from Nokia? I won't even bother with them in the future if this is so.
As far as the developer incentive goes it is my humble opinion that the $15 k may have been better spent by providing a written developers guide that anybody could use rather than expect output from 500 nameless individuals.
I received more useful information from the Tandy Corp when I bought my first copy of QDOS.
I also think there should be a better, company sponsored outlet for information on this device rather than having to rely on community based forums where members may threaten to take their ball home with them if they don't receive the props they think they deserve.
Last edited by YoDude; 2007-06-04 at 15:44.
If this was not the case, my mistake and not yours.
The distributors sale of a Nokia web site item for $40 less is a real concern. I would like to know if I should expect more of this from Nokia? I won't even bother with them in the future if this is so.
As far as the developer incentive goes it is my humble opinion that the $15 k may have been better spent by providing a written developers guide that anybody could use rather than expect output from 500 nameless individuals.
I received more useful information from the Tandy Corp when I bought my first copy of QDOS.
I also think there should be a better, company sponsored outlet for information on this device rather than having to rely on community based forums where members may threaten to take their ball home with them if they don't receive the props they think they deserve.
Last edited by YoDude; 2007-06-04 at 15:44.
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2007-06-04
, 15:53
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#63
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Ok, I can't for the life of me see where you acquired the interpretation of "try". It seems you read something between the lines and I am NOT a "hide crap between the lines" kind of person. True, sometimes my posts can be vague but that occurs as a direct result of policy which I absolutely will NOT violate. I already skirt the lines on occasion as it is.
Actually Texrat, I may have misconstrued your meaning in your previous "try" post. It indicated to me that you no longer were going to "advocate" but rather pick and chose items from a list and "try" to get answers to items that may have already been resolved.
If this was not the case, my mistake and not yours.
The distributors sale of a Nokia web site item for $40 less is a real concern. I would like to know if I should expect more of this from Nokia? I won't even bother with them in the future if this is so.
As far as the developer incentive goes it is my humble opinion that the $15 k may have been better spent by providing a written developers guide that anybody could use rather than expect output from 500 nameless individuals.
I received more useful information from the Tandy Corp when I bought my first copy of QDOS.
I also think there should be a better, company sponsored outlet for information on this device rather than having to rely on community based forums where members may threaten to take their ball home with them if they don't receive the props they think they deserve.
Taking off the Nokia advocate hat and replacing it with my N800 enthusiast cap, I agree that the lack of a cover at this point is extremely frustrating. However, at the same time perpective prevents me from grading it as critically as you do. That's simply a result, however, of different strokes for different folks. I have different needs and a Nokia-provided cover falls VERY low on that list. I tend to look for third party solutions in that area anyway, so no biggie to me.
I won't argue either way on the developer program. I think the pros and cons are pretty even.
As for your last little slam, here's where you REALLY get me wrong. There wasn't near as much petulance in my post as there was frustration with the "shoot the messenger" approach you are taking. In addition, I can't work up 2 shits over "props", my friend. You have me completely confused with a certain wannabee forum "god" who places much more importance on forum accolades than service. If I was that sort of person, you wouldn't be benefitting from the shipment of covers and faceplates that I do out of my own goodwill and on my own precious time.
If you can't understand that, and insist on misconstruing my motives, then perhaps you'd be better off placing ME on ignore. I admit I'm a little snitty right now, but I really don't care for your own tone. I don't believe your allegations are warranted.
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2007-06-04
, 16:32
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#64
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Paging Mr. Moderator! 
Deep breaths everyone, deep breaths... come on chaps, lets just all get along!
Deep breaths everyone, deep breaths... come on chaps, lets just all get along!
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2007-06-04
, 16:35
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#65
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Thanks Mil.
I keep forgetting the number one law: "No good deed goes unpunished".
I keep forgetting the number one law: "No good deed goes unpunished".
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2007-06-04
, 17:34
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Posts: 2,152 |
Thanked: 1,490 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Czech Republic
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#66
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Did you check maemo.org site? There are heaps of documentation there. It is not a problem of documentation. Anyone who wants to develop for Maemo can do so. The biggest problem IMO is that the platform is young and immature. It took many years for Windows CE/Pocket PC/Windows Mobile to reach mature state and match PalmOS. I still remeber times when people laughed at that platform and there were no useful applications for it and it took many years and platform iterations to get to current state where nobody laughs at it anymore.
As far as the developer incentive goes it is my humble opinion that the $15 k may have been better spent by providing a written developers guide that anybody could use rather than expect output from 500 nameless individuals.
Maemo started at end of 2005 and runs only on 2 devices both sold only in selected countries and each device has different version of OS. Over that 1.5 year we had 3 different (more or less incompatible) iterations of the system and quite few such changes are ahead. Also the user base is small. This is not yet good environment for producing commercial apps. It just does not make much sense now. So the only alternative how to overcome this period is free applications until/if the platform matures. I guess that was one rationale behind (first) developer program. To make this happen as fast as possible.
As for the second (N800) program this was about supporting those app developers that created something but also (which you may not know) many/most devices went to 'upstream projects' i.e. GTK, gstreamer, linux kernel, GNOME, ... guys. So basically these people will not write many end user apps for you but they will perhaps make sure that those projects will take Maemo needs into account and things will go more smoothly.
So while you don't see the result directly and in short term, from Nokia's point I think it makes sense.
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2007-06-04
, 18:28
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#67
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Thanks for your insight fanoush. All information I glean on this forum affects my developing opinion. I am a member of the garage and do read Maemo.org.
However, these sites have undergone some changes and do not provide the continuity that a 40 or 50 page booklet provides. Try as I might to incorporate new technologies into my lifestyle, when learning something new nothing for me yet can beat the portability and convenience of a book, pencil with an eraser, and a traditional note pad.
Edit: That was fast! Things do change.
Posted on Maemo org recently:
>> http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html
Textrat, are these some of the improvements you spoke of?
BTW, I realize that being posted about by another can cause one to question the motives behind others posts. My advice is to let it go and the attention seeking nature of the other party will cause him to look somewhere else. Keep doing your thing man.
Last edited by YoDude; 2007-06-04 at 20:54.
However, these sites have undergone some changes and do not provide the continuity that a 40 or 50 page booklet provides. Try as I might to incorporate new technologies into my lifestyle, when learning something new nothing for me yet can beat the portability and convenience of a book, pencil with an eraser, and a traditional note pad.
Edit: That was fast! Things do change.
Posted on Maemo org recently:
Roadmap
This is how the future of maemo is being planned. Follow the details of the new features to be implemented and suggest your own (guidelines below).
Development
Tools
Compilable sources - Next generation SDK - Scrathbox Devkit Update - Scratchbox in Ubuntu - Better maemo developer tools - Gazpacho official support - VMware support - Scratchbox in RPM - Games development support - Backing C++ support - GUI Flasher for Linux - Python plug-in for Eclipse - GDB - strace - Valgrind - Theming tools - Python development support - Plankton in SDK - QEMU 0.9.
Documentation
Complete official docs - maemo training portfolio - maemo architecture - Better code examples - Community documentation tool - Screencasts & video infrastructure - Debugging guide - Kernel development guide - Maemo policy - Global Search API - BT profiles - Build your own devrootfs HowTo - GStreamer plugins doc.
Community
Social News section - CRM + user profiles - Application Catalog revision - VIP hosting & Easy filesharing - Calendar - Location Showcase - maemo summit
Process
Detailed public changelog - Quality Awareness - Application Catalog quality process - Certification
Marketing
maemo flyer - Presentations infrastructure
Platform
GTK+ 2.10 -Consolidated Hildon Framework - glibc-2.5 - HAL - Samba - System meta package - BT headset support -USB host support - Automatic codec installer -G.729 VOIP codec - DTMF - WiMAX
Applications
Skype - Modest email client
Textrat, are these some of the improvements you spoke of?
BTW, I realize that being posted about by another can cause one to question the motives behind others posts. My advice is to let it go and the attention seeking nature of the other party will cause him to look somewhere else. Keep doing your thing man.
Last edited by YoDude; 2007-06-04 at 20:54.
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2007-06-04
, 20:57
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#68
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Originally Posted by Texrat
As a 770 owner (and vocal N800 refuznik) myself, I wholeheartedly agree with the cover issue being a non-priority compared to, say, "legacy platform" support... :-)
Taking off the Nokia advocate hat and replacing it with my N800 enthusiast cap, I agree that the lack of a cover at this point is extremely frustrating. However, at the same time perpective prevents me from grading it as critically as you do. That's simply a result, however, of different strokes for different folks. I have different needs and a Nokia-provided cover falls VERY low on that list. I tend to look for third party solutions in that area anyway, so no biggie to me.
BTW, 2/3 weeks ago (ie quite a while after the last Nokia noises about 770 support) I posted a polite message to the maemo dev list, asking if there was an ETA for the next "hacker edition" 2007 OS for the 770. I asked because I wanted to try it out (it being the only upgrade path left to us by the Nokia roadmap), but was prepared to wait awhile if a new version was on the way.
After a week or so without an echo, I reposted the question, inquiring if perhaps it was stupid or impolite or something. Still waiting on that one too...
Meanwhile, the (very) few other posts on that list about OS2007HE made me wonder whether it is really more than a red herring (pun with Sardine intended), as some have surmised here, a way for Nokia to save face and assuage 770 owners without actually committing to anything much. While some report speed, stability and/or user interface improvements with this "unofficial" image, others warn that these come with drawbacks, making the 770 less operational than with the 2006 OS. Two at least are showstoppers for my personal usage : Opera crashing when presented with an "unvalid" SSL certificate (the exact same problem that prevents me from using Minimo), and the lack of support for the cover and its embedded magnet, degrading power conservation and autonomy (I suspect this last is a conspiracy by jealous N800 activists :-).
The way things are going, I'm not very hopeful these (and other problems) will be fixed, and OS2007 actually made usable on the 770. It's true, as someone else remarked, that after eighteen months the little bugger is still every bit as functional and useful day-to-day, maybe even more thanks to maemo mapper and Gizmo and Python and such. I'm not asking for a newer Flash (I could care less) or a newer Opera (gimme a newer Minimo :-) or, God forbid, a PIM... But I find it kinda sad that this little Linux box in my pocket still reboots itself at will at least once per 24 hrs (worse than Windows) after four OS updates, and its killer app (the browser) still knows more ways to fail than I can keep track of. Oh well.
Anyway, Tex, best of luck in your new endeavour(s), and thanks for your dedication. One last word, if I may : I'm certainly no shrink or Zen master, but it does show from your latest postings, my friend, that there is some strain at your end of the line. Perhaps it might help to shut out the trolls from your mind for a while and concentrate on positive and useful things, such as preparing a comprehensive report on Finnish ladies after your trip there :-)
Last edited by fpp; 2007-06-04 at 21:00.
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2007-06-04
, 21:11
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#69
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Yeah, a little bit of stress lately, but in all honesty even if I were not the tone of the posts in question would have been met with some irritation on my part simply because I feel it was undeserved. Really hit me wrong given what I have been trying to do. But, if I didn't have so many things pulling me in so many directions lately, and scrambling to make this Finland trip work, odds are I would have been more sarcastic than snippy. 
As to your remarks about no response re 2007 Hacker edition for 770, I share your pain. After at first being encouraged by some feedback regarding the N800 in general, I was next a little dismayed at some subsequent silence. I try to keep in mind that there are BIG organizational changes going on at Nokia which have many employees otherwise occupied. The dust is supposed to settle July 1-- just as all of Finland goes into a 1-month Summer hibernation from work. I have no doubt that the next few weeks will see a huge push to get stuff out before that shutdown-- Skype may even be one of them, despite my doubts.
As for Finnish ladies: hopefully there will be enough visible to report on.
EDIT: lol... fixed spelling
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-06-04 at 21:19.
As to your remarks about no response re 2007 Hacker edition for 770, I share your pain. After at first being encouraged by some feedback regarding the N800 in general, I was next a little dismayed at some subsequent silence. I try to keep in mind that there are BIG organizational changes going on at Nokia which have many employees otherwise occupied. The dust is supposed to settle July 1-- just as all of Finland goes into a 1-month Summer hibernation from work. I have no doubt that the next few weeks will see a huge push to get stuff out before that shutdown-- Skype may even be one of them, despite my doubts.
As for Finnish ladies: hopefully there will be enough visible to report on.
EDIT: lol... fixed spelling
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-06-04 at 21:19.
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2007-06-04
, 21:46
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#70
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Duh, I didn't know about that reorg (obviously). Having the privilege of working in a big outfit undergoing massive and permanent change for the past years, I can understand how that may affect things as seen from the outside...
As to your remarks about no response re 2007 Hacker edition for 770, I share your pain. After at first being encouraged by some feedback regarding the N800 in general, I was next a little dismayed at some subsequent silence. I try to keep in mind that there are BIG organizational changes going on at Nokia which have many employees otherwise occupied. The dust is supposed to settle July 1-- just as all of Finland goes into a 1-month Summer hibernation from work. I have no doubt that the next few weeks will see a huge push to get stuff out before that shutdown-- Skype may even be one of them, despite my doubts.
As for Finnish ladies: hopefully there will be enough visible to report on.
EDIT: lol... fixed spelling
