titan | # 1 | 2010-02-18, 11:23 | Report

For lack of a proper mailing list and project name I'm starting this new thread
to brainstorm about a new project which has at least two main goals:

* use Debian (or Ubuntu) as a upstream for MeeGo.
MeeGo itself is deliberately going to be incompatible to every other distribution.

* port Debian with MeeGo components to the N900

UPDATE: we are brainstorming on this page http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian

DISCLAIMER:
This thread is not about _whether_ Debian should be upstream but _how_ we could implement it.
We're not interested what your favorite distribution is or why you don't like Debian.
For flamewars please start another thread.

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Last edited by titan; 2010-02-22 at 14:22. Reason: disclaimer, wiki page

mivoligo | # 2 | 2010-02-18, 11:36 | Report

I think this might be interesting for Ubuntu/Debian lovers (like me): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/UbuntuLiquid http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/liquid-update

titan | # 3 | 2010-02-18, 11:38 | Report

I think we should start with a native Debian squeeze port to the N900, while legally reusing the proprietary Nokia components to avoid losing functionality (unlike Mer).
This means we would try to upgrade as much as possible free components to their Debian counterparts without breaking compatibility for the proprietary Nokia stuff. Alternatively the Nokia software could run in a minimal chroot to provide everyday functionality on the N900.

I think starting with an existing device has the advantage of testing the port in the real world scenario
and access to a larger community which may be interested in running a full Debian distribution on their device (so far they only have Easydeb).

Later we could integrate more and more MeeGo components and send the necessary modification to
Debian upstream. Building of packages would be done using the Debian infrastructure.

I'm working on a solution which makes it possible to keep the original rootfs on NAND
but which creates a chroot on eMMC and boots from there. It removes the need for optification
while taking advantage of the faster NAND for system files. System files can be selectively replaced.

titan | # 4 | 2010-02-18, 11:42 | Report

thanks, but the N900 does have accelerated graphics!? Do you really think KDE makes sense on a mobile device?

jsa | # 5 | 2010-02-18, 11:44 | Report

As an end user I would sincerely hope that the open source communities could actually pull the same rope for the greater good instead of dividing to camps where the difference to my admittedly untrained eyes is more in the philosophy than the end result.

titan | # 6 | 2010-02-18, 11:58 | Report

for an end user having Debian as upstream means getting access to more HQ software packages.
This is not a rpm vs. deb or Fedora vs. Debian philosophy discussion,
because MeeGo is going to be incompatible to all other distributions.

We want to fix that and give it _some_ proper upstream distribution.

Another group of volunteers could give it a Fedora or whatever upstream (more choice is good), but at least my personal preference is a Debian upstream.

TA-t3 | # 7 | 2010-02-18, 12:02 | Report

From the end result point of view there's not much difference in what's at the bottom. I believe a Fedora/RPM-based baseline could be on the same level as a Debian/DEB-based baseline. However, for some of us who view the whole thing from the bottom-up, i.e. working directly with package creation etc. it can make a big difference. In particular, some of us went with the internet tablet (and later N900) _because_ it was a Debian/DEB-based solution.

So I'll be keeping an eye on this thread started by titan. The proposed solution could presumably be done without creating a hopeless divide.

blachner | # 8 | 2010-02-18, 12:41 | Report

Incompatible? In which way? That you can not just use a package from Fedora, openSUSE or whatever? With Maemo you can't use Debian packages also.

In my opinion much off the HQ packages of Debian makes no sense on a mobile device. So a distribution,like MeeGo which covers directly the needs for mobile devices, is a much better way to go.

An also MeeGo wouldn't be "incompatible" to other distribution, because it offers many libraries and the Linux bases system similar to other distributions. With rpm MeeGo can also be LSB conform. So it is compatible to the Linux Standard.

But it is open source. So go and make your distribution. Have a lot of fun.

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Last edited by blachner; 2010-02-18 at 12:45.

jak | # 9 | 2010-02-18, 12:53 | Report

It's basically just about packaging MeeGo parts for Debian; and maybe providing some images or stuff like this.

titan | # 10 | 2010-02-18, 13:00 | Report

MeeGo = deliberately incompatible
Maemo = similar to Debian, reusing much its tools and policies
Debian Mobile = Debian + extra packages or modifications from MeeGo

nobody forces you to use Debian mobile.