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2010-02-26
, 22:14
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#62
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Originally Posted by voidster
This is, quite frankly, just this side of slander. Linux users tend to be far more accepting of open source developers and those who earn money not by selling licenses, but by getting paid for the actual act of writing the software. Many, many Linux developers are paid for their work.
Linux-based users tend to believe they should get everything for free and sw developers should develop for fun and eat air.
They just somehow need to make it profitable for application companies. Produce some sort of "dalvik-like" based sandbox where they can control and simplify the APIs, while still maintaining the freedom of use that interest the "hacker" community.
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2010-02-26
, 22:18
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#63
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Originally Posted by voidster
I believe so too. Probably have more NOKIA devices now, than you ever had in your life. With regards to US vs. the world, whenever someone posts negative facts about NOKIA, you are called a troll, or dumb, or stupid, etc., etc. and when you point out that the only visible NOKIAs lately in the US are prepaid $20 buck phones hanging from Best Buy and Target shelves, the sensitive types claim that US is stupid, people there are stupid, they dont even know what a smartphone is. The link shows that NOKIA leadership realizes what the problem is. They have lost the edge in the high end market. They can sell pennies all over the developing world, but they cant sell smartphones in the US because they can not compete with the service, customer satisfaction, and software. NOKIA apologizers cant digest these facts and then begin name calling.....I am surprised they are not thrown off this board.
I wasn't going to post - but I felt the urge to point out how useless you appear.
To all other reading this thread. I find this to be a quite interesting topic. It is unfortunate that all fanboys have to run into the trenches and start to fling mud.
I've been working in the cellphone business for quite a number of years and it is a reality that IPhone has changed the game. It is a reality that Android based phones has changed it even more. This also implies a shift in the balance towards S.V. No reason to ignore reality and fling dirt. That does not mean that the N900 is behind. The N900 is both in hw and sw (in terms of linux-usage) quite cutting edge.
It is quite pointless to make this into some US vs the World discussion as tex14 seems to be aiming for. My guess is that he has nothing to with the success and hard work of the people behind said technologies. I doubt he would even have the capacity. It is always easy to find any successful group, find a common denominator (in this case nationality) and then hope somebody mistake you for being part of the group.
N900 lacks applications and attention from application companies. Userbase is quite small and I don't think the users really are willing to spend any significant amount of money on applications. Linux-based users tend to believe they should get everything for free and sw developers should develop for fun and eat air.
However, I still believe Nokia is onto something with the N900. They just somehow need to make it profitable for application companies. Produce some sort of "dalvik-like" based sandbox where they can control and simplify the APIs, while still maintaining the freedom of use that interest the "hacker" community.
I think it is very positive that Nokia management is aware and actively pursuing a course that might keep them in the middle of the fray.
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2010-02-26
, 22:35
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Posts: 6 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#64
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Originally Posted by wmarone
This is, quite frankly, just this side of slander. Linux users tend to be far more accepting of open source developers and those who earn money not by selling licenses, but by getting paid for the actual act of writing the software. Many, many Linux developers are paid for their work.
I know I was sticking my chin out a bit with that comment. I know a lot of people are paid for writing for linux. It does still not change the fact that companies are driven by profit and to focus on a new device (read differing APIs/frameworks/HW) you really need to be able to see a way to make money - and that is where I feel linux based systems sometimes have a problem. While a big company may be able to derive profit from for example sold devices a smaller SW applications only company will be reluctant to produce for a device where they can't see the buyers. For my part I am rather sad that the early Shareware concept of Windows didn't fully work. I mean, that would be a nice way to derive profits from developing for for instance the n900.
(btw... I am a linux user myself - only I try to be objective when it comes to money.)
Originally Posted by wmarone
Well, I understand the problem - but I really do not feel open/close would satisfy me. I enjoy having full access to the phone. The question is - would the solution need to be 100% secure? I mean, you could perhaps lock sw to the IMEI and some other magic and then get a sufficiently good solution to protect aspiring developers somewhat.
No DRM solution can be considered secure when the user still has the ability to replace the kernel. This is why Nokia is discussing the "closed" and "open" modes for the next device, so the user can decide.
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2010-02-26
, 22:36
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Posts: 1,217 |
Thanked: 446 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Bedfordshire, UK
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#65
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Tex you are missing the point again. When you have tried to state that the US market show that Nokia is behind producer a or b you should expect people to point out that there is a world outside of the USA. Your usual response in this situation is to state that it is the most competitive market in the world and then claim everyone is a Nokia apologiser.
Nokia doesn't have a huge presence in the US but there are lots of reasons for that. The US is a different market to europe and Nokia are european centric so it is only to be expected that their strategy would also differ.
The other point you ignore time and again is that the Maemo team are a tiny part of Nokia so they simply don't have the resources of a larger company.
Nokia doesn't have a huge presence in the US but there are lots of reasons for that. The US is a different market to europe and Nokia are european centric so it is only to be expected that their strategy would also differ.
The other point you ignore time and again is that the Maemo team are a tiny part of Nokia so they simply don't have the resources of a larger company.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Fargus For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-02-26
, 22:42
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Posts: 6 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#66
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Originally Posted by Tex14
Well, it is true that there are nokia fanboys as well. I'll give you that. You pretty much missed my point about N900. The N900 is the hw and sw edge, in my opinion. It however lacks momentum so far (read applications/developers/commerce). Nokia still sells the most smartphones in the world by a far margin.
I believe so too. Probably have more NOKIA devices now, than you ever had in your life. With regards to US vs. the world, whenever someone posts negative facts about NOKIA, you are called a troll, or dumb, or stupid, etc., etc. and when you point out that the only visible NOKIAs lately in the US are prepaid $20 buck phones hanging from Best Buy and Target shelves, the sensitive types claim that US is stupid, people there are stupid, they dont even know what a smartphone is. The link shows that NOKIA leadership realizes what the problem is. They have lost the edge in the high end market. They can sell pennies all over the developing world, but they cant sell smartphones in the US because they can not compete with the service, customer satisfaction, and software. NOKIA apologizers cant digest these facts and then begin name calling.....I am surprised they are not thrown off this board.
I will refrain from answering any more posts about this because I am not interested in the trenches.
| The Following User Says Thank You to voidster For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-02-26
, 22:47
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#67
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Originally Posted by daperl
LOL. Another NOKIA apologizer, afraid to peek out of his cave. How much is daddy's allowance?
That's cute, he wants to play. Run along little boy, I'm sure there's a headline somewhere waiting to be mangled. You're so provocative for your age. Do you use breast or formula?
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2010-02-26
, 22:48
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#68
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Originally Posted by Fargus
Read what NOKIA leadership says. They are hurting. They are regrouping and they know where they have to be. And that is in the most competitive market for high end phones, and it aint India.
Tex you are missing the point again. When you have tried to state that the US market show that Nokia is behind producer a or b you should expect people to point out that there is a world outside of the USA. Your usual response in this situation is to state that it is the most competitive market in the world and then claim everyone is a Nokia apologiser.
Nokia doesn't have a huge presence in the US but there are lots of reasons for that. The US is a different market to europe and Nokia are european centric so it is only to be expected that their strategy would also differ.
The other point you ignore time and again is that the Maemo team are a tiny part of Nokia so they simply don't have the resources of a larger company.
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2010-02-26
, 23:30
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Banned |
Posts: 109 |
Thanked: 10 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#70
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Originally Posted by Viqsi
I was gonna look up the score............It must have been those iphone ipods that hyped them
The USA just trashed Finland in olympic men's hockey.
I'm sure that's relevant to this discussion somehow, if anything at all is.
To all other reading this thread. I find this to be a quite interesting topic. It is unfortunate that all fanboys have to run into the trenches and start to fling mud.
I've been working in the cellphone business for quite a number of years and it is a reality that IPhone has changed the game. It is a reality that Android based phones has changed it even more. This also implies a shift in the balance towards S.V. No reason to ignore reality and fling dirt. That does not mean that the N900 is behind. The N900 is both in hw and sw (in terms of linux-usage) quite cutting edge.
It is quite pointless to make this into some US vs the World discussion as tex14 seems to be aiming for. My guess is that he has nothing to with the success and hard work of the people behind said technologies. I doubt he would even have the capacity. It is always easy to find any successful group, find a common denominator (in this case nationality) and then hope somebody mistake you for being part of the group.
N900 lacks applications and attention from application companies. Userbase is quite small and I don't think the users really are willing to spend any significant amount of money on applications. Linux-based users tend to believe they should get everything for free and sw developers should develop for fun and eat air.
However, I still believe Nokia is onto something with the N900. They just somehow need to make it profitable for application companies. Produce some sort of "dalvik-like" based sandbox where they can control and simplify the APIs, while still maintaining the freedom of use that interest the "hacker" community.
I think it is very positive that Nokia management is aware and actively pursuing a course that might keep them in the middle of the fray.