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ysss is offline ysss
2010-02-27 , 17:00
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#71
@jer006: Let's not lump all DRM implementations into a single sticky hairball. Sony's rootkit was a huge @$$!#! as they tried to shoehorn a layer of misguided security mechanisms on systems that they have no business to tinker with in the first place. It's wrong on so many levels, including the way they (mis)used LAME infringing the GNU license.

I agree that the 'removal' of second hand market for games is a significant loss; financially, functionally and even culturally. This has to be addressed better, maybe by giving the ability to pass the license to another person/machine or by lowering the prices to make this feature-loss more sensible.

I'm not preaching for the current DRM implementation, what I agree with is the concept: That the content creator has to be given security measures to enable them to choose who to sell their products to and to limit unauthorized (re)distribution of their products.
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jer006 is offline jer006
2010-02-27 , 17:21
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#72
They should all be lumped into the same sticky hairball though, if I buy a game I am only paying for and installing that game. All implementations such as Securrom, Sony's rootkit, starforce etc, they are all installed on the machine without the owners knowledge, they all run on the local machine hiding themselves in the process and they are all using local resources and in most cases are a nightmare to remove! Also all of them also seem to have caused issues on users machines...

Horrible idea although its a great way to turn off potential knowledgable purchasers of your product - or worse drive them to the warez sites where they can get cracked "clean" versions.... (opposite of their original intended purpose - spore I believe was one example of this!)

I do agree that the creator should have some security but I would also say that the majority of users are honest and buy the products in question (1st or 2nd hand markets), you are penalizing the majority for the minority which steal movies, software, games, music etc... Also Steam is a good model for deployment of software however it does screw 2nd hand sales as you cannot sell your license - thus killing off the game stores in malls and rendering the value of your purchase to zero as you cannot sell or trade it!

Also as long as there is DRM there will always be people cracking it - hackers after all seem to love the challenge of breaking encryption etc...

Really does not solve anything and probably ends up costing the consumer more for the product because of the time and effort spent developing the DRM mechanism in the first place!
 

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Brank is offline Brank
2010-02-27 , 17:25
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#73
I'm guessing Paid content will open with next firmware update as everyone will get deb support. Give Nokia some time to fix paying for stuff as well.
They've failed with everything Ovi-Store so far, so hopefully after next firmware we can only see growth and awesome. But as the history has been pure fail, I'm not expecting much :<
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2010-02-27 , 17:51
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#74
Originally Posted by jer006 View Post
I do agree that the creator should have some security but I would also say that the majority of users are honest and buy the products in question (1st or 2nd hand markets), you are penalizing the majority for the minority which steal movies, software, games, music etc...
Judging from iPhone experience, there are far more users that have no qualm about using sofware they have no right to. DRM is bad, but let's not preach water and drink wine. By playing cracked versions, you're still helping the DRM-using company, just not monetarily. They still get the exposure, the marketing and the potential customer for their next release. You against DRM ? Ignore THE SOFTWARE and COMPANY, not the TERMS. You are still free to NOT ACCEPT them, but NOT TO BREAK THEM. That is the only way to win on the long run. Support Free software or business models that do not cripple usability. As long as you use (cracked or not) DRM-ed software, DRM will not go away.
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2010-02-28 , 01:21
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#75
To me, a lot of this sounds like hypocritical self-justifying arguments made by people who can get stuffs they want for free. Financially, this is made possible by all the legit customers who ponies up the cash and to make it worth the content creator's while;
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russo_br is offline russo_br
2010-02-28 , 01:55
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#76
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
If you don't want their product in the first place, then you're not a potential customer of them anyway. Moot.

To get the correct perspective, substitute the content with something that you would likely purchase (movies, music album, games, etc that you want and are willing to pay for).

Now, if there is a content publisher that you like and respect, perhaps you'd care about the phenomena of irresponsible people pirating their goods too.
It seems like a Fanboy or Nokia employee post... I do agree intellectual property must be respected, but the delays on Ovi Store paid content for N900 is just lack of competence from Nokia. Thehy should get Ovi Store ready from the launch of N900!!
 
jakiman is offline jakiman
2010-02-28 , 02:34
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#77
OVI store should have been ready at launch.

Obviously someone at Nokia either screwed up big time or they thought users/devs won't care for the first few months.

Talking about illegal downloads etc. I saw this recently and found it amusing.
http://www.overclockers.com.au/image.../26feb10/4.jpg
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-02-28 , 02:52
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#78
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
To me, a lot of this sounds like hypocritical self-justifying arguments made by people who can get stuffs they want for free.
Hilarious counter argument. Except it is completely, totally false and pretty much an ad hominem attack. If I cannot get something without DRM, I do without. If I can crack the DRM then I will consider it (LOL CSS.)

I prefer things without DRM, since it means that I am not unfairly impinged in my ability to enjoy my purchases, and I do not live with a corporation standing over my shoulder ready (and willing) to disable my purchases for any reason whatsoever.

I'm halfway surprised that you haven't equated users of open source software as all being pirates, you sound just like those pro-DRM industry talking heads.
 

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2010-02-28 , 04:18
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#79
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Hilarious counter argument. Except it is completely, totally false and pretty much an ad hominem attack. If I cannot get something without DRM, I do without. If I can crack the DRM then I will consider it (LOL CSS.)
Thanks for proving my point

I prefer things without DRM, since it means that I am not unfairly impinged in my ability to enjoy my purchases, and I do not live with a corporation standing over my shoulder ready (and willing) to disable my purchases for any reason whatsoever.
Again, I never advocated the use of badly implemented DRM. You're using flawed logics to justify your actions. When a DRN is properly implemented, the main thing that it should reasonably restrict is your ability to make unauthorized copies of the product and sharing them to other potential customers.

I'm halfway surprised that you haven't equated users of open source software as all being pirates, you sound just like those pro-DRM industry talking heads.
Actually, I commend those who make do with open sourced products to gain some financial savings (on license costs).
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-02-28 , 04:41
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#80
Originally Posted by jer006 View Post
I do agree that the creator should have some security but I would also say that the majority of users are honest and buy the products in question (1st or 2nd hand markets), you are penalizing the majority for the minority which steal movies, software, games, music etc
I'm not so sure anymore. I see that people expect things for free nowadays and the number willing to circumvent copyright is increasing. Anecdotally, the majority of people I know do this on a regular basis. Even one person I would call as straight-laced as they come feels no guilt in renting a movie and running off copies for friends and family (as a favor). A former co-worker had quite the black market ring doing this, actually charging for the copies he made (but low enough that no one complained) and had a clear majority of employees on his list.

A while back I saw a study showing that over half the people questioned admitted to willfully violating copyright laws (sorry, I could not hunt it up).

This is not said in order to back any DRM schemes. It's just to acknowledge that willingness to skirt the law in this regard is or will soon become the norm.
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