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jflatt |
2010-04-06
, 21:57
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Posts: 534 |
Thanked: 723 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#11
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Thanks professor, how about just "a) been around longer" and "b) has a larger community"? I can tell you one thing, ObjectiveC is a bloody mess. I am much faster doing c++ in QtCreator than using XCode and its wacky shortcut keys.
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2010-04-06
, 22:01
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Posts: 60 |
Thanked: 46 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Europe
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#12
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Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!
__________________
Zen master ordering a hotdog: "Make me one with all!"
Zen master ordering a hotdog: "Make me one with all!"
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2010-04-06
, 22:08
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Posts: 1,086 |
Thanked: 2,964 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#13
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I work (offshore) for one of the largest US based IT companies, my particular office is one of the smaller groups but still has over 1250 employees and we work on mobile apps. I can tell you there is no interest in Maemo or Meego, little left in Symbian though that is where most of my own experience is, but the momentum is behind Iphone and Android. From an individuals point of view, we can take the time and effort to get something working on our beloved n900. From a software company's point of view, Maemo or Meego doesnt even factor into the equation. Maemo is dead and not worth the bother or the hassle, there isnt even a proper process for app payment or distribution. Meego is still nothing but what might be. Money is made on the here and now.
As an individual, it's also much easier and faster to work on Android or Iphone. The setup is easy and straightforward (as long as you have a mac for the Iphone sdk ofcourse), i can get a range of books from Amazon or the library, and there's a great easy to use app store available to load my app onto if it's any good. The process is straightforward, the code examples and Apis are mature, the OS is stable, consistent, and improving. On the other hand Maemo is a lot of groping in the dark.
As an individual, it's also much easier and faster to work on Android or Iphone. The setup is easy and straightforward (as long as you have a mac for the Iphone sdk ofcourse), i can get a range of books from Amazon or the library, and there's a great easy to use app store available to load my app onto if it's any good. The process is straightforward, the code examples and Apis are mature, the OS is stable, consistent, and improving. On the other hand Maemo is a lot of groping in the dark.
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2010-04-07
, 02:41
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Posts: 78 |
Thanked: 17 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#14
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Originally Posted by kojacker
I work (offshore) for one of the largest US based IT companies, my particular office is one of the smaller groups but still has over 1250 employees and we work on mobile apps. I can tell you there is no interest in Maemo or Meego, little left in Symbian though that is where most of my own experience is, but the momentum is behind Iphone and Android. From an individuals point of view, we can take the time and effort to get something working on our beloved n900. From a software company's point of view, Maemo or Meego doesnt even factor into the equation. Maemo is dead and not worth the bother or the hassle, there isnt even a proper process for app payment or distribution. Meego is still nothing but what might be. Money is made on the here and now.
As an individual, it's also much easier and faster to work on Android or Iphone. The setup is easy and straightforward (as long as you have a mac for the Iphone sdk ofcourse), i can get a range of books from Amazon or the library, and there's a great easy to use app store available to load my app onto if it's any good. The process is straightforward, the code examples and Apis are mature, the OS is stable, consistent, and improving. On the other hand Maemo is a lot of groping in the dark.
See thats's what my actual point was, now we've seen comments from different programmers here and they'll talk about iphone's aap development as in very simple easy and ready-made format. but on the other hand ppl like u who are professionals and r involved in every day market trends & specially in the mobile aap market. And it's so disappointing to know that there is no interest in maemo/meego now this makes me tink that what kinda cheap trash is nokia smoking.
I mean i still do not understand the purpose behind them making a device which they r gonna abandon like that. They are the largest cell phone makes yet such a powerful device like N900 remains un-popular and left aside and instead of the company's support its left for the programmers or developers, who clearly are stating that the platform to develop aaps for n900 is not easy or lengthy or not as simple as iphone.
So either we make face, or look the other way apple really is a winner over any other cell phone company, i mean they captured the market in such a small time.
I might be wrong but after listening to you all I stil ljust cant get the nokia's mentality of making devices and abandoning them.
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2010-04-07
, 03:07
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 344 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Israel
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#15
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Originally Posted by roger_27
Roger, the linux development in general and mobile development in particular is so different from C# development.
well, I am C# developer of 5 years, and I had some big plans to make some n900 apps, but I really couldn't find 1 straight article that would go from start to finish on how to instal the virtual machine, to how to compile my first app, to how to run it on the emulator. After a couple days I just gave up.
I might pick it up again in a few months.
so my guess could be lack of such straightforward development support?it's a trade off, but here's how it works for apple:
you pay a fee
you get a membership and access to stuff
there is a tutorials section with sample apps and how to get started
here's how the maemo sdk stuff went
I scoured the forums
found a wiki with instructions that weren't detailed enough on how to install a virtual machine
I have no clue how to compile my first app, but it all seems to be in command line?
I gave up
maybe this stuff is only for linux gurus
I am a professional C# development myself (MCPD), and it took me a couple of months to get motivated enough and do enough digging in order to develop a working application for the N900.
You can do everything from the N900 itself (and for that you might want to learn python and gain another language), or, as you've been suggested here, install the ESBox virtual image with ubuntu ready to start development in an Eclipse like IDE and C/C++/Python with intellisense.
In addition to Mono (as Venemo suggested), You can also try Vala (as Mixu suggested, and as appear in this thread). It's a C# like programming language, and there's a nice hildon example to start with, and the good thing it compiles directly to C library thus have no overhead.
Developing for Maemo is light years away from the nice, informative and straight forward MSDN articles.
There are many many ways to start developing for the N900 (it has binding to so many languages) that usually newbies can't see the forest for the trees. I know that, I've been there, and I'm currently far away from considering myself a Maemo guru.
But the key is to try. As long as you try, you are on the right path. Get frustrated, do mistakes, but try, and you'll finally have a working product, as persistent developers usually do
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2010-04-07
, 03:42
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#16
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Originally Posted by junooni
That's because it's a very, very closed environment tightly controlled by Apple. There's also lots of wasted space as any libraries a program wants to use have to be packaged along with each.
See thats's what my actual point was, now we've seen comments from different programmers here and they'll talk about iphone's aap development as in very simple easy and ready-made format.
Make no mistake: Developing in the Apple world is very easy, but there is -no- freedom.
Android is also easy, but that's because you're developing for Android and not Linux. MeeGo will bring some of that via Qt, read below.
And it's so disappointing to know that there is no interest in maemo/meego now this makes me tink that what kinda cheap trash is nokia smoking.
I mean i still do not understand the purpose behind them making a device which they r gonna abandon like that.
They are the largest cell phone makes yet such a powerful device like N900 remains un-popular and left aside
instead of the company's support its left for the programmers or developers, who clearly are stating that the platform to develop aaps for n900 is not easy or lengthy or not as simple as iphone.
So either we make face, or look the other way apple really is a winner over any other cell phone company, i mean they captured the market in such a small time.
They will never catch me though as I despise such a horribly closed platform, and I'm not the only one.
Originally Posted by omeriko9
It amuses me that people have to be encouraged to do this, and that they're -shocked- that Linux development isn't bottled up as cleanly as Windows development is.
But the key is to try. As long as you try, you are on the right path. Get frustrated, do mistakes, but try, and you'll finally have a working product, as persistent developers usually do
It'll probably become easier with MeeGo as they're pushing Qt, which is similar in concept to Cocoa and Android's custom "Java" libraries, at least for those not interested in venturing too far into the world of open source. Qt Developer already makes it cake to get the basics going.
And as for mono, you can try and use it but it's something that will forever be behind Microsoft, never quite able to be current.
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2010-04-07
, 04:42
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Posts: 108 |
Thanked: 120 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#17
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They abandoned it because they lost the name ... it is all about perception, I don't know why this isn't apparent. It isn't the motive, it is the lens that makes people speculate and come to such conclusions. You see 2 people in this thread already think Maemo was given it's death knell ... which it has. Why would people/ companies want to develop for Maemo, or MeeGo one is dead and the other doesn't exist as said by kojacker, the incentive is just not there.
I love my N900, and I don't regret it ... this thing is a powerhouse. I will also tinker around with it and write some code when I get a chance, (was thinking of making or porting a Usenet type client). But as it is now, developmental resources are hard to come by or are not organized well enough. I've been on a windows based system when it comes to development, I'm getting used to the Unix environment ... instead of nurturing this new set of developers ... Nokia like an ADHD sufferer goes off into the MeeGo abyss. Now a rumored tablet, come on Nokia can barely do a proper Smartphone. They just went to the Arm Cortex A8, everything before N900 was a slow ARM11 or even slower ... they have become a me too type of company and not once seeing a project to completion and supporting it. The N900 is a phone/ tablet with features still missing ... I mean hardware handicaps ... like an accelerometer that isn't even utlized by having a proper portrait mode ... or a front facing camera that isn't accesible by the suite of software this phone came with ... let alone the sync issue with Gmail granted which is software.
In my opinion Nokia has a culture of lacking focus, they cannot focus on a few items when it counts. Something that has worked for them well in the feature phone market but they brought this habit into the smartphone market. This style does not work in this market ... no one pays $500+ to have their phone obsolete in 3 months by a model that replaces the last. Obsolete sometimes doesn't even mean by hardware, Nokia even makes products obsolete by software ... where the hell is that Ovi maps with turn by turn? The Ovi store needs to be an app, going to a website is not the ideal way of navigating for apps, and the selection online should have more files.
I don't even get this site ... is it just the community, does Nokia listen and read this here forums? For the most part it seems we just vent and this isn't heard.
Maemo is a great platform, I hope this MeeGo endeavor brings with it more people more interest ... but Maemo had a good entrance and has a solid user base ... Nokia is guaranteeing it fails by pulling these crappy stunts. Are they allergic to money? Truly as it is now, the community is the only ones marketing and actively selling this phone and improving the Maemo experience ... Nokia is barely engaged in this with us ... there fleeting attention is already elsewhere looking at MeeGo amd drooling over another product they are going to abandon next.
I love my N900, and I don't regret it ... this thing is a powerhouse. I will also tinker around with it and write some code when I get a chance, (was thinking of making or porting a Usenet type client). But as it is now, developmental resources are hard to come by or are not organized well enough. I've been on a windows based system when it comes to development, I'm getting used to the Unix environment ... instead of nurturing this new set of developers ... Nokia like an ADHD sufferer goes off into the MeeGo abyss. Now a rumored tablet, come on Nokia can barely do a proper Smartphone. They just went to the Arm Cortex A8, everything before N900 was a slow ARM11 or even slower ... they have become a me too type of company and not once seeing a project to completion and supporting it. The N900 is a phone/ tablet with features still missing ... I mean hardware handicaps ... like an accelerometer that isn't even utlized by having a proper portrait mode ... or a front facing camera that isn't accesible by the suite of software this phone came with ... let alone the sync issue with Gmail granted which is software.
In my opinion Nokia has a culture of lacking focus, they cannot focus on a few items when it counts. Something that has worked for them well in the feature phone market but they brought this habit into the smartphone market. This style does not work in this market ... no one pays $500+ to have their phone obsolete in 3 months by a model that replaces the last. Obsolete sometimes doesn't even mean by hardware, Nokia even makes products obsolete by software ... where the hell is that Ovi maps with turn by turn? The Ovi store needs to be an app, going to a website is not the ideal way of navigating for apps, and the selection online should have more files.
I don't even get this site ... is it just the community, does Nokia listen and read this here forums? For the most part it seems we just vent and this isn't heard.
Maemo is a great platform, I hope this MeeGo endeavor brings with it more people more interest ... but Maemo had a good entrance and has a solid user base ... Nokia is guaranteeing it fails by pulling these crappy stunts. Are they allergic to money? Truly as it is now, the community is the only ones marketing and actively selling this phone and improving the Maemo experience ... Nokia is barely engaged in this with us ... there fleeting attention is already elsewhere looking at MeeGo amd drooling over another product they are going to abandon next.
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2010-04-07
, 04:44
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#18
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Originally Posted by MoJo
This is quickly turning into another FUD thread.
there fleeting attention is already elsewhere looking at MeeGo amd drooling over another product they are going to abandon next.
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2010-04-07
, 05:42
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Posts: 108 |
Thanked: 120 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#19
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It isn't fud when you say what is happening. I know some here feel sensitive when Nokia is mentioned, I am being as objective as I can be. I have no personal stake in this either way, I have my N900, I love it and that is all there is to it.
But I see the reality of things as well. Nokia's track record of follow through, which has been abysmal. I think it takes a lot of foresight to call them out on it, before they drop the ball. It isn't an exaggeration or a far stretch to say that the N900 is being handled badly as a product ... it is in limbo. Yeah go ahead and disregard a lively debate by insinuating it as FUD, the OP is asking a legitamate question ... serious questions for which I gave my opinion. I am sure there are more who feel the same. Wondering how can Nokia have so mismanaged a phone such as the N900. The marketing sucks, the app market is non-existant (Ovi sucks) and the App manager needs better improvements like search and ratings. Maemo was shelved 3 months into the release, their attention is elsewhere like a Symbian^3 phone rumored to have superior specs (not that there is anything wrong with that ... but wasn't Maemo supposed to be on the bleeding edge and Symbian for cheaper smartphones?), there is also MeeGo and now a rumor of a Tablet? Come one Nokia get your act together and make a coherent plan you can stick to.
So this isn't FUD it is the reality that is being ignored, can we agree that the N900 has had a worse treatment than the N97 ... the N97 has worse specs, but it runs the darling Symbian?
Below is my FUD, above was the truth ...
To fully be confident and back a product you would go balls in ... not holding hands and treading carefully with Intel. This is a symbiotic relationship not geared for a long run. MeeGo will split when either Intel or Nokia have had there interest met, then what?
But I see the reality of things as well. Nokia's track record of follow through, which has been abysmal. I think it takes a lot of foresight to call them out on it, before they drop the ball. It isn't an exaggeration or a far stretch to say that the N900 is being handled badly as a product ... it is in limbo. Yeah go ahead and disregard a lively debate by insinuating it as FUD, the OP is asking a legitamate question ... serious questions for which I gave my opinion. I am sure there are more who feel the same. Wondering how can Nokia have so mismanaged a phone such as the N900. The marketing sucks, the app market is non-existant (Ovi sucks) and the App manager needs better improvements like search and ratings. Maemo was shelved 3 months into the release, their attention is elsewhere like a Symbian^3 phone rumored to have superior specs (not that there is anything wrong with that ... but wasn't Maemo supposed to be on the bleeding edge and Symbian for cheaper smartphones?), there is also MeeGo and now a rumor of a Tablet? Come one Nokia get your act together and make a coherent plan you can stick to.
So this isn't FUD it is the reality that is being ignored, can we agree that the N900 has had a worse treatment than the N97 ... the N97 has worse specs, but it runs the darling Symbian?
Below is my FUD, above was the truth ...
To fully be confident and back a product you would go balls in ... not holding hands and treading carefully with Intel. This is a symbiotic relationship not geared for a long run. MeeGo will split when either Intel or Nokia have had there interest met, then what?
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2010-04-07
, 06:08
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#20
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Originally Posted by MoJo
Ok
It isn't fud when you say what is happening. I know some here feel sensitive when Nokia is mentioned, I am being as objective as I can be. I have no personal stake in this either way, I have my N900, I love it and that is all there is to it.
But I see the reality of things as well. Nokia's track record of follow through, which has been abysmal. I think it takes a lot of foresight to call them out on it, before they drop the ball. It isn't an exaggeration or a far stretch to say that the N900 is being handled badly as a product ... it is in limbo.
Yeah go ahead and disregard a lively debate by insinuating it as FUD, the OP is asking a legitamate question ... serious questions for which I gave my opinion.
But I'm tired of re-arguing this and will inevitably be attacked as a fanboy for not wanting people to make claims for which they have no proof. You already posted a thread about "Hating MeeGo" and inferring all sorts of nonsense because it has a new name, I don't see what you're on about.
I personally, prefer a platform that's a touch difficult to develop for but developed with actual community involvement and actually open, than the jail that is the iPhone/iPad/iPod and the top down approach that is Android.
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