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SavageD is offline SavageD
2010-04-12 , 05:38
Posts: 436 | Thanked: 406 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#31
Originally Posted by on3st4b View Post
let me put it in baby words ...

simple logic cant be apllyed

the nubmer of apps installed , if not running in back round and if they didnt install
a service runing in backround WILL NOT EFFECT THE RESPONSIVENES of the device.

usualy its the heat produced by OC that destroys/damages things .
Good point however I was clearly addressing the question...

why does INSTALLING more applications 'slow' down a phone?

In any case , fill your your devices memory to say 95%-100% and then come back here and say this.

This is off topic, I just have an urge to say this, intelligent design theory. lol, I think thats the culprit here.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-04-12 , 05:43
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#32
Originally Posted by SavageD View Post
fill your your devices memory to say 95%-100% and then come back here and say this.
In the end, however, he is right. Subjective descriptions of a device becoming "slow" do not help diagnose any possible issues. In any case:

Which memory? Remember, the N900 has multiple memory types:
- RAM
- Rootfs (256MB where the OS is stored)
- eMMC which stores
> /home - where all of your user settings are stored
> /opt - where all installed applications go
> swap - the 768MB Nokia adds to the ram to say 1GB
- SD Card (which may or may not be there.)

Filling the rootfs to 95-100 is known to cause problems, including being unable to do pretty much anything. The only issue I could see is if you have an application open so long that it begins to use all the ram and force things out to swap.
 

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SavageD is offline SavageD
2010-04-12 , 05:46
Posts: 436 | Thanked: 406 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#33
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
In the end, however, he is right. Subjective descriptions of a device becoming "slow" do not help diagnose any possible issues. In any case:

Which memory? Remember, the N900 has multiple memory types:
- RAM
- Rootfs (256MB where the OS is stored)
- eMMC which stores
> /home - where all of your user settings are stored
> /opt - where all installed applications go
> swap - the 768MB Nokia adds to the ram to say 1GB
- SD Card (which may or may not be there.)

Filling the rootfs to 95-100 is known to cause problems, including being unable to do pretty much anything. The only issue I could see is if you have an application open so long that it begins to use all the ram and force things out to swap.
ROM memory, this wold include the SD if you have any, the eMMC, and home combined.
Last edited by SavageD; 2010-04-12 at 05:49.
 
on3st4b is offline on3st4b
2010-04-12 , 05:48
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 11 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ greece
#34
Originally Posted by SavageD View Post
ROM memory
ROM is read only , so u cant write on it .
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-04-12 , 05:49
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#35
If you fill up the rootfs

(the ROM, as it is poorly called by tech journalists, is actually a OneNAND Flash chip attached to the CPU and is not truly Read Only Memory

Originally Posted by on3st4b View Post
ROM is read only , so u cant write on it .
There is no true "ROM" in the N900 that I am aware of.)

to 95% - 100% then yes you will see issues, but likely far worse than the device being "slow" (more like, being completely unable to function in many respects.) You are not likely to find yourself in such a position without installing applications from -devel, however.
 
SavageD is offline SavageD
2010-04-12 , 05:50
Posts: 436 | Thanked: 406 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#36
Originally Posted by on3st4b View Post
ROM is read only , so u cant write on it .
:/ yea man, i need some sleep lol, nighty night.
 
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JMacalinao is offline JMacalinao
2010-04-12 , 05:55
Posts: 46 | Thanked: 26 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Makati, Philippines
#37
Hopefully, this can shed some light to the issue...

Although it's true that [generally] installing apps don't affect the responsiveness of the device, there are some apps that do affect the responsiveness, although I can't determine why. Sometimes, the slowness doesn't have any relation with CPU/memory usage at all...

For example (and this is based on my personal experience, btw), about two months ago, installed a lot of apps, including the Extra protocols plugin for Conversations and Contacts 0.7 (take note of the version), and everything was fine... until I upgraded it to 0.8. After rebooting the device, every transition went choppy. CPU/mem usage seems to be okay, but every UI animation I see in the device was slow (edit: okay, not slow, but you can easily see the difference in the "smoothness," or lack of it). It irritated me, so I uninstalled it. After reboot, the issue was gone.

A few days later, I decided to install Pidgin protocols plugin for Conversations and Contacts 0.8 (a subset of the extra protocols plugin), and I haven't experienced any lag. I personally concluded that there's something else in the extra protocols plugin that lags the UI, and it's surely not the Pidgin protocols.

I can't surely say that there's a problem with the extra protocols plugin (it actually does the work quite well), but at least in my device, there's something in that plugin that makes the UI lag. As to exactly what, I can't tell.
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Last edited by JMacalinao; 2010-04-12 at 06:01.
 
on3st4b is offline on3st4b
2010-04-12 , 05:59
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 11 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ greece
#38
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
No, the damage due to forcing electrons through the copper interconnects inside the CPU at a higher clock rate will be far greater, as you (hopefully) aren't trying to run games and other cpu-intensive software for long periods.
well , what i was trying to say was that the CPU can take some extra MHZ without any problems , but you have to deal with the extra heat .
specialy in the case of N900 , all the components are in a tite space and the extra heat althought it might not damge the cpu itself may cause problems to other hardware .
in the cases of extreme overclocking you are right , but also if not dealing with the heat you want be able to run at all @ that oc speeds.

PS: sorry for my english , but they are not my 1st nor 2 nd language
 
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smoku is offline smoku
2010-04-12 , 06:01
Posts: 1,716 | Thanked: 3,007 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Warsaw, Poland
#39
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Applications that have been installed but are not running cannot have an impact on how responsive the device is.
This statement is generally true. Except for many small, but many times significant details.
Only a running up may consume CPU cycles. Period.
But an installed app may affect the system by changing its configuration. One example is DNS resolution. If you hit its configuration, you may notice considerable lags in many places in many apps. And there are more things like this.

Sheer volume of files stored on the disk may affect the directory seek times. Filesystem used by N900 does not use btrees for directory searching, so the factor is linear to the number of files in the directory.

And swap. This is not true, that swap eats CPU cycles. It does use CPU very little. But it is very I/O intensive. And app waiting for data from the disk is almost no different than app waiting for CPU - so the confusion.
But generally swap is a good thing, as long as your working set fits in memory. Swap allows to swipe unused or used very rarely apps, that are needed in background to have a complete system, out of memory and have more cells for the actuall used app working set.

A conclusion:
The sheer ammount of installed apps does not affect system responsivenes.
But an installed and not running app may affect system responsivenes by changing its configuration (ie resolver) and/or state (ie brings enormous number of files to the filesystem). But it is still a problem with particular app, not the exact number of apps.
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-04-12 , 06:03
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#40
Originally Posted by JMacalinao View Post
For example (and this is based on my personal experience, btw), about two months ago, installed a lot of apps, including the Extra protocols plugin for Conversations and Contacts 0.7 (take note of the version), and everything was fine... until I upgraded it to 0.8. After rebooting the device, every transition went choppy. CPU/mem usage seems to be okay, but every UI animation I see in the device was slow (edit: okay, not slow, but you can easily see the difference in the "smoothness," or lack of it). It irritated me, so I uninstalled it. After reboot, the issue was was gone.

A few days later, I decided to install Pidgin protocols plugin for Conversations and Contacts 0.8 (a subset of the extra protocols plugin), and I haven't experienced any lag. I personally concluded that there's something else in the extra protocols plugin that lags the UI, and it's surely not the Pidgin protocols.
That actually sounds like a completely diagnosable bug, and you've narrowed it down to a specific package and even a specific version. Plugins for the contacts thing do tend to run in the background.

That said, the whole transitions thing is flaky. I've noticed a significant increase in responsiveness since applying the changes to transitions.ini noted in the thread dedicated to that issue.
 
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