Say NO! to Qt-based Maemo! - Page 13 - maemo.org

smoku | # 121 | 2010-04-21, 06:25 | Report

Originally Posted by tomaszrybak View Post

But putting dependency on Mono might be one of the reasons that some companies might want to avoid introducing GNOME into their devices.

GNOME != GNOME Desktop
Last 'E' is 'Environment'. The environment is GObject based and depends on GLib only.

The Following User Says Thank You to smoku For This Useful Post:
Andre Klapper

smoku | # 122 | 2010-04-21, 06:35 | Report

Originally Posted by w00t View Post

Qt will be fine and happy under Gnome. If you're using the right style plugin (QGtkStyle or QCleanlooksStyle), widgets are actually drawn using Gtk - you can't get much more native than that.

I haven't used KDE for awhile. Is Qt still placing OK/Cancel buttons in dialogs in the order reverse to GTK+ Cancel/OK?

attila77 | # 123 | 2010-04-21, 06:43 | Report

Qt places buttons in the way the platform specifies. Most of the time that means reverse to GTK+ (the debate which one is more intuitive is another holy war in itself)

smoku | # 124 | 2010-04-21, 06:50 | Report

Originally Posted by johnel View Post

These technologies are tools.

But you had to open your big f***ing mouth and complain about it and the ugly-warty head of "gnome vs kde"/"gtk vs qt" rears it's ******ed drooling head again.

Yes, I am complaining. After many years of waiting (I've been watching this os since 770), Nokia finally brought the technologies I got to use and love on my desktop PC, to an appealing state and I can carry it in my pocket. I bought N900 because I can use it and hack it just like my normal desktop Debian machine. They does not differ much. And I enjoy it.
And I hate the decision of dropping it all just after they finally got it working, to replace with something else, I organically hate from the beginning.
Yes, I am biased. Yes, these are emotions. I'm only human.

As for the tools metaphor.
Somebody finally produced and sold me a toolbox that is perfect match and the tools fits my hands. But they are not going to produce it anymore.

P.S. Swearing and offending people does not give you splendor, nor credibility, nor power. It's pettiness expressing itself.

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to smoku For This Useful Post:
Andre Klapper, dread123, mikhas, qwerty12

smoku | # 125 | 2010-04-21, 06:51 | Report

Originally Posted by attila77 View Post

Qt places buttons in the way the platform specifies. Most of the time that means reverse to GTK+ (the debate which one is more intuitive is another holy war in itself)

Yup. I don't want to dive into this.

It's just an example, that theming Qt to look as the rest of the platform does not fix things.

nath | # 126 | 2010-04-21, 08:58 | Report

There are no "Cancel" buttons on Maemo anyway.

Joorin | # 127 | 2010-04-21, 11:42 | Report

This got a tad long, but please take the time to at least read it once.

Originally Posted by ivanzorkic View Post

I am not a programmer, but I have friends that are and that tell me Qt is great. But, what amazes me is - whenever the developer/creator/designer (in this case Nokia) decides to implement serious changes to their product, there's always an "old-school guy".

I'm not sure if you're talking about me or OP, but I'll bite.

Originally Posted by

Now, the "old-school guy" is a person who claims that all the new features are somehow bad and that the old solutions were far better. They know what is best for the product - better than the company that actually made the product.

If you're talking about me, this is just pinning things on me that I've never said, nor implied. My comments relate to how a change might affect the platform and C++ not being the best of choices.

Originally Posted by

Then they give reasons which probably have some basis in reality, but always miss the point. The point being: the product should be good for the majority of people, not for the select few.

Again you're trying to pin things on me that's not corresponding to what I've said. There is nothing stopping a product from looking good and being as nice a hacking environment as the N900.

By making the proper choices combining look and feel with what's the best for using the platform and hardware you get just what you're asking for.

Originally Posted by

I'm not saying all change is good, but I'm saying that no change is definitely bad.

This I agree with completely.

Originally Posted by

And, as I said, I'm no programmer and most of you guys are. I'm an illustrator and a designer and I got an N900 for its multimedia and web capabilities. I never ran Linux, I spend my time in Photoshop and 3ds max and I use Wacom instead of code to send my thoughts out there. And I'm loving the device and what it may bring. No one has the right to tell me that its hacker-only or whatnot - as I use it daily with much joy and success.

Then imagine that you get to work one day and that new updates have been installed on your computer. Starting Photoshop and 3DS Max takes a little longer, but it's no biggie since you'll be using the programs for 8 hours so 2 seconds compared to 4 is nothing.

You start working and you notice that those common operations you do all the time take just a little longer. You also notice that the mouse sometimes just won't keep up.

The reason for the slowdowns and laggy mouse movements are that the updates contained a new toolkit for your window manager. You get niftier widgets, better looking docking, animated this and transparent that but you pay with general performance.

Now make your choice: Uninstall the updates and get the performance you're used to (and "uglier/older" UI) back or learn to live with a slower system (with a "more beautiful/newer" UI).

If you translate this to the N900, a less responsive touchscreen could potentially kill the product. Not being able to switch tasks as quickly as before would make multitasking less desirable. A web browser that's lagging even more than now just isn't tolerable.

This is what I'm talking about. By not being really careful when updating the more central parts of the system, you can kill it.

Originally Posted by

And some of you are willing to give all that up because - what - you don't like C++?

Again you're trying to pin something on me. I've been very open to Qt as perhaps being the best toolkit to get applications developed but my main concern is that it might cost us resources that we already are low on (CPU and RAM). On top of that I'm worried that code quality will drop.

These are concerns that spring from my experiences and knowledge about how computers, toolkitted development and Linux works. If you think I'm in the wrong, please correct me, but it's a bit sad to get degraded to "some old school guy" just because I'm not interested in a resource hungry UI and would prefer the best combination instead.

Venemo | # 128 | 2010-04-21, 12:00 | Report

Please stop with the moaning already.

MeeGo WILL SUPPORT GTK. That's a FACT.

Google and the Wiki are your friends.

Link.
From here:
Meego FAQ
"MeeGo will also include Clutter and GTK+."
MeeGo Architecturue: There is a nice rectangle with the GTK caption.

Will my favorite Maemo 5 GTK application run on MeeGo?

So, no worries here.
If you don't like Qt, your favourite GTK apps can still work.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Venemo For This Useful Post:
Bundyo, nath, REMFwhoopitydo

Joorin | # 129 | 2010-04-21, 12:16 | Report

@Venemo

Where have I ever "moaned" about the possibility to run GTK applications on MeeGo? Did I ever claim it wouldn't be possible? Should I just assume you didn't even bother to read my post?

I dislike both GTK+ and Qt for overlapping reasons (but I can find lots of good things in both) and I dislike KDE and the GNOMEDesktop for very similar reasons. So, I use CTWM to manage my windows and get exactly what I want.

When it comes to the N900, which I do like a lot, my main concern is that it'll get bogged down with bling to satisfy the marketing department making it less interesting for fun development.

I don't care if the UI is written in FORTH as long as that's the best choice for the platform and hardware.

jakiman | # 130 | 2010-04-21, 12:17 | Report

MeeGo doesn't "just" support Qt. GTK+ will also work as mentioned above.
Qt was just chosen as the main "link" for apps to be compatible between different Nokia (symbian/maemo) and MeeGo platforms.

I'm no developer but just a normal user of N900. From a user point of view, I'm very happy that Maemo5 will be able to run at least some apps that are going to be made for future OS's.

The Following User Says Thank You to jakiman For This Useful Post:
bbin