YoDude | # 21 | 2010-05-16, 02:53 | Report

I don't know how you're using отдел агитации и пропаганды (agitprop) or to whom you're applying it to.

The posts between yours and my last one are not clear on this as well. Hitting the "Quote & Reply" button before a post helps sometimes.

If you are using the term in the classic way then I presume you are referring to my previous post as being along the "Nokia Party Line". If so... far from it.

If there is anything I am a fanboi of it is this forum its own dang self. Although it is supported by Nokia, it has remained independent of their influence.

On this forum is where I first became aware of what the N900 is and ain't. I then purchased it after first determining that it would suite my needs. I now contribute information on how it does just that.

Unfortunately many may have bought the thing first, and then have come to this forum to complain about how it doesn't suite their needs.

That doesn't hurt my feelings none as the purchase price is good motivation to learn. Many will learn and contribute and that's a good thing.

However, those who can't or wont learn make a lot of noise before they either pass out or move on. To tolerate this noise you have to filter out or squawk the BS.

In doing so you may also get an indication as to why some have a problem with the device.

The forum system works if you pay attention. For instance:

My thoughts on the above^ exchange are first:
WTF?

And then:
This is a very good illustration of how some people have trouble understanding even simple things that can be explained precisely with only one dang sentence.

HellFlyer | # 22 | 2010-05-16, 04:38 | Report

How many people do you think can read Russian on this forum , товарищ

oldpmaguy | # 23 | 2010-05-16, 05:04 | Report

Agitprop ultimately means agitation propoganda, and I'm applying it to you!

Despite its dramatic/communist associations, any propoganda that attempts to sway opinion by means of creating dissention and rift in a way that gives the appearance of being merely unintentional, is agitprop. Hence, I'm using it here in the more modern and common sense of the term, and not the oft-seen "first dictionary definition" sense.

Actually, it dismays me that the word doesn't get more usage, seeing as how much agitprop we are all bombarded with in our time (I'm a North American, so I speak primarily from a US perspective, but I presume all people are subject to it in this day and age of media saturation).

Here's a link or two to get you more formally acquainted with this fine word, one which you otherwise are already familiar with, so it seems!

http://www.websters-online-dictionar.../agitprop.html
(check the "specialty definition" - there's nothing really "special" about it in this day and age, though, but then again, that's probably just the way The Man likes it!)
http://www.wordnik.com/words/agitprop/examples
(Some - admittedly lame - examples)

And as a bonus, please let me remind you that I also associated your original post with the term stealth marketing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_marketing

Happy propagandizing, friend!
8^)

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Last edited by oldpmaguy; 2010-05-16 at 06:29.

YoDude | # 24 | 2010-05-16, 07:28 | Report

Thanks for the education there fella...

...and thanks for all them dandy links to dictionaries and whatnot but could you please link to or at least quote my post where you believe I am doing whatever it is you think I'm doing and please post why you think so.

I'm a simple guy so please use simple words. I can communicate in several languages but again, only as a simple guy. Savvy?

What I think you are implying is that I am somehow "buzz marketing" or shilling in someway for Nokia. Is this correct?

If so, you have hurt my feelings somewhat.

I'll provide you with a link to perhaps invite you to consider otherwise. Fortunately our forum has an app for that >> HERE <<
Start at the beginning and see how our hero was educated right on this here forum.

You sound like you may not be getting all that you can out of your device. Perhaps like me you are primarily a Windows user. You also sound as if you have some understanding of how things work.

If so, the best thing you can do is install a program like ExpanDrive on your Windows machine, install Openssh on your N900, establish an ssh connection and then get in there and poke around.

Go to places like N900:\usr\share\applications\hildon open a few desktop files in a clean text editor and see how things are done. Make your own pointing to a favorite web page:

... and see what happens.

Use some of that common sense you speak of and have fun...


Did ya see what I did there?
I gave you links to information found on this forum...

Also: As I said earlier, I'm a simple guy so in the future if you're going to call me something, please use a simple word that has a well defined meaning in the western language of your choice. (Where I have learned the meanings of some of the things I've been called in the past. If it is going to be nasty, I prefer Italian because even the nasty stuff somehow sounds poetic in Italian.)

This will save us both some time.

Edit:: I realize that I just spent a lot of time preparing a useful post in response to someone who basically called me out because I didn't agree or posted contrary to whatever his views are. Although I did get to read why he thinks obscure terms first used in Russia in the early part of the last century are "common sense" and should be used more often. I didn't actually understand his point.

My response was more for the good of the forum and to provide support for my statement that I didn't think I was going to find anything as easy to modify to suite my needs in the near future.

This by no means was designed to make me out as some kind of forum "Albert Schweitzer". I could have just as easily gone "Philadelphia" on his *** and reserve all rights to do so in the future, as required.

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Last edited by YoDude; 2010-05-16 at 07:57.

oldpmaguy | # 25 | 2010-05-16, 14:30 | Report

Sure. (Sorry about being so abstruse, BTW. Bad habit. I'll try to be more plain hereafter.)

Here you are, the content of your original post that I am addressing, albeit editied for purposes of length and removal of needless redundant message.

In order for me to simplify things for you, maybe you will allow me to quote another user who I think hits the nail right on the head in his/her analysis. That user writes:
And in lieu of further exhaustive explanations on my part, please allow me to direct you to some more links for everyone's edification regarding that user's point.

Loaded question, Loaded language

Both of these concepts, I might add, are forms of overtly persuasive language, and when used for a particular purpose, can be considered as propoganda.

So, whether you are truly as disingenuous as you are presenting yourself to be, or not, you should still understand that a) coming onto a message board that exists for the purpose of providing a forum for a particular product, and to then b) proceed to discredit that product, and to then c) espouse a competitor's product, and to d) subsequently implore that the users of said forum should seriously consider abandoning their particular product, in favor of the product you are espousing: all of this amounts to shilling (yes, good word! but not for Nokia, you big silly! rather for the competitor's product, isn't it obvious?).

To summarize today's lesson: you are quite possibly shilling for a competitor using a technique known as stealth marketing by introducing agitprop to demoralize and confuse forum users, using a method known as loaded language.

Class dismissed!

tobylee | # 26 | 2010-05-16, 16:10 | Report

wont have any money ot spend on a phone till september so im going to see whats out then, if Nokia have got their arse in gear I'll stick with them. But as great as the maemo community is I feel like im starting to loose faith in my n900; it's a great phone with awesome potential but atm it's seemingly heading towards a dead end. If this wasnt the case then there wouldnt be so many of these threads.

I have had a Nokia since the 3310, every phone ive had since has been a nokia, ive had an N95, N95 8GB, N96, N97 (which I sold to help pay for the N900) but if I see no improvment I will be jumping ship to android.

benny1967 | # 27 | 2010-05-16, 17:00 | Report

i will, of course, buy the first harmattan device they make available in my country. why shouldn't i? i had the 770, N800, N810, N900... and all are great. there's no reason to believe the next iteration will not be as good.

as a phone, once my current one breaks, a decent nokia C-series device will do. good battery life, symbian, no touch screen, numeric keypad. C5 if they dont have something better until then.

fatalsaint | # 28 | 2010-05-16, 17:42 | Report

oldpmaguy:
While I got a chuckle out of your post, something is wrong. On my screen:

But yet, in your post:

So, your entire response seems to be directed to the wrong person.

Uwe is doing the propaganda, yes. YoDude - OTOH (who asked that question, and who I think you wrongfully directed the "you") - has not that I've seen. I think you're confusing names .

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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-05-16 at 18:49. Reason: Spelling fixed ;)

oldpmaguy | # 29 | 2010-05-16, 18:43 | Report

Oh my, you are correct, sir or madam. How embarrasing. I guess it's due to the fact that YoDude was so adamantly confrontational and defensive in regard to my "agitprop" remark, that I simply assumed he was the OP, and then unconsciously ignored even the very names I was using as quotes in my own posts! How remarkable a thing the human mind is, wouldn't you agree?

So the only question left to ask is, Why was YoDude so adamantly defensive regarding my "agitprop" remark? His was response #15, and mine was response #19. I would have assumed that by not quoting the OP, it was understood that I was replying to the thread's main intent, and not responding to anyone's response in particular.

It is indeed odd that YoDude chose my comment to focus on as a potential reply to his own response - I can se no clear reason for that.

Oh well, I admit being confused, but only by someone who is themself confused. I promise I will try and do better next time. And thank you, fatalsaint, for calling my attention to my error.

...so Uwe, all that bit about agitprop and stealth marketing and loaded language, that was for your benefit. Enjoy, then, I hope you read up on it!

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Last edited by oldpmaguy; 2010-05-16 at 18:46.

YoDude | # 30 | 2010-05-17, 01:13 | Report

Dude you are confused. Did you miss a med or suttin'?


Reading may be fundamental but comprehension is a whole 'nother matter.

This is a threaded conversation that can have contributions from multiple parties. My post was about how confusing some of these responses are if we don't extend the courtesy to all forum members by quoting the post we are referring to.

I even asked you if I was the one you were replying to. Your pretentious use of an obscure word to describe a behavior caused me to look up all the possible definitions including ones from the words root language to see how they may have applied to my post.
(Yes HellFlyer. Мы все товарищи ... but some apparently don't know this. )

I offered an explanation of how one definition may have been used and how I thought that it may have been misapplied.

You responded with more confusion based BS but stated that it was me you were referring to and then accused me of posting BS.

When I asked for a quote you did quote me but gave it someone else's byline.

How do you do that by freakin' accident?

When someone else called you on it you imply that I was the confused one.

... and you still refuse to use the quote tool and referred to my post by thread number. Which BTW means jack **** if any previous post gets deleted later or the thread is split or merged with another.

Please take the time to familiarize yourself with how a forum works best.