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YoDude is offline YoDude
2010-06-16 , 23:47
Posts: 2,869 | Thanked: 1,784 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Po' Bo'. PA
#161
Originally Posted by qole View Post
My attitude at the moment is to just mostly ignore MeeGo until there's actually something compelling for me to care about. I don't care about Harmattan because it is completely intangible. I think I'm not alone.

When a real MeeGo with a full set of functioning drivers and the reference handset UI hits the Internet, I will become much more interested.

I know I can't be alone. I bet there's a huge number of capable developers and community members who are sitting on the MeeGo sidelines waiting to see what will happen.

Until then, I will just keep working on my Maemo stuff*, and learning Qt programming and RPM packaging on the side. Honestly, how can we be expected to do anything else?

* I need beta testers for the extended mimetype handler package (currently called dbus-switchboard)...
Egg freakin' zackly dude.

We are not even making butter with all the tail chasing going on here.

Thanks for that link BTW, that is what I'm talking about when I say there are plenty of things we could still be doing. I see you found the extra forward slash bug that I also stumbled upon and solved while trying to load a locally stored page with a desktop script. I didn't think anyone would care anymore or would admonish me in some way if I posted about it.

Me's going to that thread now and will see if this also applies to M3U playlists stored locally.
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somedude's Avatar
somedude is offline somedude
2010-06-16 , 23:53
Posts: 1,312 | Thanked: 736 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#162
Originally Posted by qole View Post

He asked me some questions, and I helped him as much as I could, and then I suggested that we continue discussing this on a mailing list or forum or somewhere else public. His answer was very non-committal and I've heard nothing since.
Makes me think how open is Meego really going to be? With your scripts that you are discussing and distributing to everyone in the world through internet, which they want to use in their future offerings, but do not want to share ideas and let the people know what they are upto.
That does not sound OPEN to me at all.
Maybe something to do with it getting packaged with some of the Nokia's Binary but why not get quole on the post and let him take over rather than paying someone to do the closed inside job which you do not want the public to know about, and the person you are paying does not know clearly where to go without quole's help.
hmmmmm
 
Texrat's Avatar
Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-17 , 00:06
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#163
Originally Posted by qole View Post
Honestly, how do community members contribute to a project such as this, with paid developers working madly behind the scenes, with very little incentive to discuss things publicly, and the whole system still in flux?
You're right, which is why I decided to tackle something I believe is needed and important but not tied to specific hardware or even an OS [1].

I realize not everyone likes playing in virtual mud puddles like I do, but for anyone wanting to contribute to MeeGo and unhappy with current policy or lack of specifics, I'm practically begging for participation in our meta-project. Granted that right now we're mainly in fact-finding mode and have nothing of substance yet, but 1) all my research points to the importance of the subject and 2) it would be nice to move beyond theory and into practicality.

[1] http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_User_Eng...mework_Project
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Frappacino is offline Frappacino
2010-06-17 , 00:27
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#164
Not trying to be a party pooper, but does this discussion make any difference to Meego or Maemo ? Does Nokia care ?

I find Quole's account appalling, its like they run in, grab his work, and run off. Its impolite to say the least.

Oh well.
 

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2010-06-17 , 00:52
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#165
Originally Posted by Frappacino View Post
Not trying to be a party pooper, but does this discussion make any difference to Meego or Maemo ? Does Nokia care ?

I find Quole's account appalling, its like they run in, grab his work, and run off. Its impolite to say the least.

Oh well.
I'll play devils advocate: two things to consider:
- you've only heard one side of that story (there may be some other reason they've not been able to follow it up).

and, partially related:
- MeeGo is not fully out in the open, yet. Meaning ways of contributing back and cooperating are not fully defined, and for those that are.. there is still going to be adjustment required. change this big doesn't just happen overnight.

One good example for how a team should work in the open is the ARM hardware adaptation team, who have regular meetings, in the open, who have an IRC channel, in the open, as well as public code, documentation, and use of meego-dev.

What is needed is more people leading the way as things continue, otherwise, it isn't going to happen. keep asking questions, keep prodding things along. the status quo is comfortable, and not everyone wants more than comfortable.
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2010-06-17 , 00:57
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#166
Originally Posted by qole View Post
Until then, I will just keep working on my Maemo stuff*, and learning Qt programming and RPM packaging on the side. Honestly, how can we be expected to do anything else?
And that, in itself, is a productive attitude. Kudos.
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qgil's Avatar
qgil is offline qgil
2010-06-17 , 04:57
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#167
One clear conclusion of this thread and others along these lines is that words alone are not enough to bring any change. We keep walking and we put all our efforts doing the best steps. Time will tell where does this lead.

I fully agree with you that discussing alone is not very productive. This is why I believe my/our best contribution to this discussion is to keep working on the stuff that brings changes.

These are the big items that keep me busy these days, in no particular order:

- MeeGo Handset UX pre-alpha, including image for the N900.
- MeeGo-Harmattan (provisional name) platform SDK pre-alpha.
- MeeGo-Harmattan community edition for the N900.
- MeeGo & MeeGo-Harmattan Extras (community apps infra).
- Opening of Nokia software components for MeeGo.
- MeeGo project openness and community engagement.
- Maemo community transition to MeeGo.
- MeeGo Conference.

Also not in my strict area but trying to help these days:
- MyNokia registration in Maemo 5.

I hope this list works for you. At least I know that progress in each of these tasks will bring progress in discussions like this one.

By the way, maybe it would be worth having a backlog of tasks/topics for me to follow as your official Nokia contact. Maybe the Council wants to consider this? I will be half on vacation half on relocation during July. If there is a backlog for me in August I will follow it. Yes, it can include any topic, not only open source development stuff. I'll do my best being a messenger or a gateway for those tasks/topics I'm not responsible of.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-17 , 05:11
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#168
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
One clear conclusion of this thread and others along these lines is that words alone are not enough to bring any change. We keep walking and we put all our efforts doing the best steps. Time will tell where does this lead.

I fully agree with you that discussing alone is not very productive. This is why I believe my/our best contribution to this discussion is to keep working on the stuff that brings changes.
Quim, again, thank you for spending so much time on this important discussion. I feel both guilty and glad for triggering it.

Here's my synthesis and conclusion of the whole thing:

I think a significant gesture on Nokia's part would go a long way toward soothing some ruffled feathers.

I won't even define the gesture. Something from the list of grievances in this thread. And no offense meant to you Quim, but it would be nice to see the word come from Ari or higher.

Just pick one grievance, escalate, and help facilitate action on it (other than MyNokia issue). Maybe we could even start a separate thread to vote as a community if you'd rather not select and champion one yourself.

Any reader who thinks this is a reasonable idea, just Thank the post.
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twaelti is offline twaelti
2010-06-17 , 07:43
Posts: 883 | Thanked: 980 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Bern, Switzerland
#169
My guest appearance for this thread: The Ovi store :-)
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tukem is offline tukem
2010-06-17 , 08:05
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#170
Originally Posted by qole View Post
I have a good recent example. A few weeks ago, I got an e-mail from a Nokia employee who asked me some questions about my Easy Chroot scripts because they might incorporate some of the code into the MeeGo chroot installation.

He asked me some questions, and I helped him as much as I could, and then I suggested that we continue discussing this on a mailing list or forum or somewhere else public. His answer was very non-committal and I've heard nothing since.

I'm the sorry fellow who sent you that email asking all the questions. I agree that our discussion stopped too soon but to my defence I did reply to your email then got no further response from you. I should have resent the email after not hearing from you again but I didn't so I'm sorry.

In that email I asked for suggestions for a place to discuss at. Now that I've created talk.maemo.org account we can even discuss here. I don't know if it's a best place but...
 

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