please explain why symbian is out of date. Give valid points. i agree it has its issues but it seems people are saying its out of date just to fit in

never ever. f**** android.

People say that because more often than not they can't tell the difference between UI and OS (if you think GNOME (or KDE) sucks, does that mean Linux as a whole sucks ?). S60 really is out of date and no plastic surgery can remedy that. Symbian^4 will bring significant changes (though even Symbian^3 could probably be made decent if put on more powerful hardware), with Qt doing away with the hideous Symbian API and that's why IMO a dubious choice that they kept the Symbian name, as it is damaged brand-wise.

Also, there are many OS-es left out from that list, like BlackBerry OS (it's interesting how in this whole OS war BB gets ignored), Bada, S40, BREW, LiMo, you name it.

Now? Simply put what all work Nokia have build in Qt, Symbian Foundation and MeeGo. No, it's not possible.

From the start if they would have jumped to Android they would be in better position than now, but i believe Nokia could have never been able to repeat the Symbian success using Android.
With MeeGo, Symbian Foundation and S40 they again got something unique and with Nokia brand they are one of the couple of brands in the industry that can make this turn to something big. Time is running, but imho it's possible.

Its market share is falling and even Nokia has somewhat acknowledged that it's not at the level of its competitors in these high-level phones. When people talk about phones here, we're constantly talking about the 300+ euro phones, not the everyday cheap ones, so whether or not Symbian has a 40% of the overall cell phone market is not that relevant...what's relevant is that Symbian's smartphone market share is shrinking. Symbian is moving to mid-level and low-level devices, Nokia has confirmed this, and Meego will be used for the high-end devices.

So Symbian will probably maintain a huge overall market share if you just look at the overall amount of phones sold, I don't think anybody's denying it. But most of those devices will be the cheap under 100 euro phones in a year or two. And Nokia really, really wants to sell the expensive phones as well, this is not something they want to be doing, selling cheap phones.

Another factor against Symbian's chances is that Android 2.x is apparently going to be Android's low-end hardware OS version next year when Android 3.0 comes out at Christmas time. Having used an Android phone for a year (running 2.1 now) and having seen numerous new Symbian phones, there's simply no competition in the "feel of the OS". If this is what cheap 150 euro Android phones will have next year, Symbian is in big trouble. Forget open source and the anti-google ideas here for a moment and think about a normal consumer that wants something "pretty" with "apps" and "stuff". Symbian ain't pretty, Android is.

So, Symbian might not look like an attractive mid-range OS next year either. And no, the N8 / Symbian 3 won't change much, the OS is not much different at all, the feel of it is exactly the same and the Ovi app selection won't be magically improved, it's falling further behind. Nice camera, though, but well, not impressed.

Anyway, that's why I think people are dismissing Symbian. Looking at what is going on now, it's pretty clear that Symbian will be a "cheap phone" OS pretty soon.

As to the topic of the discussion: I would personally hope that Nokia created a Android line of phones, "Nokia A series" or something, but keep Meego of course, the more OS's the merrier. Saying that Nokia would be under the rule of Google by producing Android phones is kinda ignoring reality: Nokia could put their own Ovi store, maps, etc. on top of Android and refuse the Google apps. I think Nokia has a tendency of making bad software, bad services and pretty nice hardware, so I'd really like them concentrating on making hardware. The services are bad and Nokia's software (think about buggy firmwares, ovi suite etc.) really is pretty terrible. Make hardware. Use the best softtware you can, even if it's not your own. Please.

Hey, don't want to take it OT (!), but I think I do need to back up my statement.

Perform the following test over 24 hours:
1. Use an N97
2. Use an iPhone 3GS (it's direct competitor)
3. Use a G1 (another direct competitor, perhaps a bit older)

Tell me what you think.

Yes the hardware is different, but still the differences can be seen. Symbian just has a look and feel that is out of date.

Fair point re: "KDE looks out of date therefore Linux is out of date" - it's not the best logic path. Remember on phones though that UI is a large proportion of the function; certainly larger than desktop OSs or server systems.

I have understood that Symbian is going to have new UI. Does this mean that if the new UI is good Symbian can be taken seriously again?

Yaa Yaa, why not window 7?
(i think we r ranout of ideas)

Obviously, yes.

I think the long game with nokia is to phase out symbian until the 'dumb' phones hit the bottom of the Meego specification then they'll move all onto a single platform. I haven't got a link to this.

meego is not all.
symbian os is very in my opinion.
You are all band wagones.
symbian is the first open sorce platfarm and still the best, symbian is top band OS give it the repect it soppose to f**k android everytime some order android comes out 1.5 now 2.2 and soon 3.0 the OS is too soon the isnt ready.
synbian and maemo will do just find if maemo will put out more games and more bug fixes.
maemo is still more advanced than android 3.0 and iphone OS put to together
maemo 1.3 come we will see or Meego 1.1 for n900