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taril |
2010-07-12
, 15:48
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Posts: 374 |
Thanked: 75 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Hungary
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#71
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There wont be 720p in N900, ever, there wont be 720p in N900 ever! 
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2010-07-12
, 16:14
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Posts: 47 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#72
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Originally Posted by ndi
I think you could better the the number of IO operations on both with different sizes. Constant throughput is enough for HD but i think its more depended on the number of IO operations it can handle.
Pan test nr 1
Pan test nr 2
Nr 1 is on the EMMC
Nr 2 is saved on the SD, which is smooth for about 30 secs or so, then skips a little every 30 seconds, assumingly speed is a limiter.
My benchmarks over mass storage are as follow:
EMMC:
Unbuffered Write: 12/14.7/14.2 M/s (Min/Max/Avg)
Unbuffered Read: 9/9.57/9.4 M/s (Min/Max/Avg)
SD:
Unbuffered Write: 8.2/8.25/8.22 M/s (Min/Max/Avg)
Unbuffered Read: 8.12/8.25/8.20 M/s (Min/Max/Avg)
Benchmark software is my own home brew, using Windows single-thread unbuffered read. I'd link you, but I'm having a little trouble with my provider page, it seems to be under maintenance.
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2010-07-12
, 16:30
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Posts: 9 |
Thanked: 8 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#73
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The camera firmware repository is located here (contains a list of video/image capture modes that are recognized by the camera):
http://gitorious.org/omap3camera/
The specification for the 5 megapixel image sensor is located here (not very useful for encoding, I suppose, but it's a good reference nonetheless):
http://retiisi.dyndns.org/~sakke/foo...APL_090511.doc
I posed the question of video recording in 1280 x 720 to a developer here who did some work with the camera on the N900 (I'm not mentioning his user name specifically, as I'm not sure if he'll receive a multitude of messages posing the same question as a result), and the developer thought that it might be possible at ~20 frames/second or so.
As attila77 mentioned, the 3430 is not advertised as being capable of performing HD encoding, and Samsung very well may have adjusted the encoding bitrate in order to achieve the desired result with the Omnia HD. I happen to own an Omnia i8910 HD, and I also happen to have one of the first videos I recorded here on my hard drive at the moment. The video rate statistics for this 48-second clip are (as reported by Windows):
22 frames/second
8924 kbps data rate (video only)
I don't have an N900 video clip available at the moment, so I'm not sure how the data rate compares, but perhaps this information can be used as part of a feasibility assessment (granted, this is only a single clip)...
http://gitorious.org/omap3camera/
The specification for the 5 megapixel image sensor is located here (not very useful for encoding, I suppose, but it's a good reference nonetheless):
http://retiisi.dyndns.org/~sakke/foo...APL_090511.doc
I posed the question of video recording in 1280 x 720 to a developer here who did some work with the camera on the N900 (I'm not mentioning his user name specifically, as I'm not sure if he'll receive a multitude of messages posing the same question as a result), and the developer thought that it might be possible at ~20 frames/second or so.
As attila77 mentioned, the 3430 is not advertised as being capable of performing HD encoding, and Samsung very well may have adjusted the encoding bitrate in order to achieve the desired result with the Omnia HD. I happen to own an Omnia i8910 HD, and I also happen to have one of the first videos I recorded here on my hard drive at the moment. The video rate statistics for this 48-second clip are (as reported by Windows):
22 frames/second
8924 kbps data rate (video only)
I don't have an N900 video clip available at the moment, so I'm not sure how the data rate compares, but perhaps this information can be used as part of a feasibility assessment (granted, this is only a single clip)...
Originally Posted by maemomatic
It's apparently not that simple.
In the case of the Media Player, the request to open the source code was denied: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1235
However, in this case we are dealing with a feature advertised everywhere in Nokia's PR about this phone, the supposed "dvd-quality" of the video camera. I don't know whether the solution is to open source the code or to push Nokia to resume work on this.
My suggestion would be that people keep voting the related bug:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7062 adding useful technical comments when appropriate (it's a bug report, not a forum). Previous contributions to the bug report clearly indicated the developers' endorsing of the problem, until the WONTFIX.
At the end of the day, this is not even a matter of capturing video at 720p. This is a matter of capturing video properly, without stuttering, at whatever resolution the developers agree is feasible.
If others have more concrete suggestions, please share them.
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2010-07-12
, 16:50
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#74
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Originally Posted by dof250
True, however, with no other apps writing to the cards, raw throughput is a good indication of whether or not the writing speed is a limiting factor for video.
I think you could better the the number of IO operations on both with different sizes. Constant throughput is enough for HD but i think its more depended on the number of IO operations it can handle.
On my older phones, the access speed was so poor that PC-encoded video that went over 3 Mbps even over a short period choked, because that's how much a MMC back then could put out.
I still think N900 has an access issue, likely related to buffers, as some videos still choke without ceiling the CPU. Small chunk writing could be the death of it. IMO, for the camera (writing 400-500K/s), a buffer should be several MB in size and flush in at least 1M segments.
While flash virtually has no seek times, an SD card is far from ideal flash, let alone whatever the recording app tries to write. If it calls flush on the file every 512 bytes it could have an SSD in there, it's still be slow.
Anyway, I posted the figures so other people can compare their speeds and their performance. I'm trying to isolate the most limiting factor.
I'll try to dig out performance through multiple buffer sizes and flushes, however, without knowing what keeps the camera from recording smoothly it makes little difference.
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-07-12
, 17:09
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Posts: 106 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Bucharest
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#75
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Understand that no one will benefit from enhanced video recording?
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2010-07-12
, 17:17
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#76
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Originally Posted by vitamina
Why? Better quality, standardized format, more detail.
Understand that no one will benefit from enhanced video recording?
Higher resolution video has better detail than the lower, because detail is there to begin with.
If you means because the screen on N900 isn't large enough, then so what? My DSLR doesn't have a 10 Mpx screen.
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I didn't edit my post because they're both quite large.
Observations:
* ATTO's figures are quite close to mine. That is, over decent buffers throughput's what limiting the writes.
* Note that at 400-500K/s average, you need at least 2K buffers on the EMMC and SD. Any lower and it stutters. Once it drops a frame, flushing buffers for at least half a second means you need a peak of 2 M/s to recover otherwise the segment is lost, that means a minimum of 4 K(?)
* I tried both overlapped IO, direct IO, etc. All figures were withing 5% of each other on lower buffers, and identical on higher buffers (4K+)
* Further testing showed that panning isn't the most load on the camera. From 3200 Kbps, it peaked at 3600 when panning. What pushed the thing over was auto-guessing brightness/exposure. Fading up and down when walking into the sun/shade wen over 4000 kbps (500K/s).
* Also, I was able to sync the dropped frames with the bit rate. Every time it dropped, bitrate was trying to push 4000. As a result, I tried to lower the resolution to fine 4:3 (640x480) and while I have better performance it is also choking on 4000+ bitrate.
We may have a software limitation in place?
Here are the performance tests on both storage systems:
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
Last edited by ndi; 2010-07-12 at 17:20.
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2010-07-12
, 17:22
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Posts: 137 |
Thanked: 34 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
@ United States
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#77
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Originally Posted by taril
that's what they said about overclocking
There wont be 720p in N900, ever, there wont be 720p in N900 ever!
edit:
@maemomatic: I posted in that thread to potentially persuade Nokia to do something, hopefully they will listen.......but I think it is actually better that the members of this community are doing something about this.
@ndi: Sounds like you have detected the problem! We're one step closer! (Or at least you are :P)
Last edited by te37v; 2010-07-12 at 17:46.
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2010-07-18
, 10:40
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Posts: 208 |
Thanked: 91 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#78
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Try removing extra decoder support guys, I got a very noticeable performance boost. It's almost perfect for me now.
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2010-07-18
, 10:50
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Posts: 54 |
Thanked: 15 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#79
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The omap 3430 on n900 is capable of 720p encoding :
"IVA™ 2+ (Image Video Audio) accelerator enables multi-standard (MPEG4, WMV9, RealVideo, H263, H264) encode/decode at D1 (720x480 pixels) 30 fps, and up to 720p resolutions"
source:http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...emplateId=6123
Why this capability wasn't included by default baffles me. Its there on omnia HD with 3440(almost identical SOC)
"IVA™ 2+ (Image Video Audio) accelerator enables multi-standard (MPEG4, WMV9, RealVideo, H263, H264) encode/decode at D1 (720x480 pixels) 30 fps, and up to 720p resolutions"
source:http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...emplateId=6123
Why this capability wasn't included by default baffles me. Its there on omnia HD with 3440(almost identical SOC)
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2010-07-18
, 11:42
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Posts: 208 |
Thanked: 91 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#80
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Bleh, back to stuttering.
Short of over clocking my n900 to 1.5 Ghz I'm out of ideas, I'm considering returning it
Just too many little things adding up to a lot of disappointment.
Such a great phone completely gimped. Everything in it gives the impression the people responsible spent enough time on each feature with an attitude of "It kinda works, that'll do... next".
What are the chances NITDroid/Meego will redeem the n900?
Short of over clocking my n900 to 1.5 Ghz I'm out of ideas, I'm considering returning it
Just too many little things adding up to a lot of disappointment.Such a great phone completely gimped. Everything in it gives the impression the people responsible spent enough time on each feature with an attitude of "It kinda works, that'll do... next".
What are the chances NITDroid/Meego will redeem the n900?