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Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2007-10-08 , 19:40
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#21
So.... let's compare apples with *cough* apples (at least in terms of memory if nothing else!)

iPhone 16GB: £269 (Argos)
N800 + 2x 8GB SDHC: £239 + 2x £45 => £329 (Amazon and

£269 vs. £329... someone would have to be a real fan of Internet Tablets in order to lay down the extra notes and buy the N800. If all they wanted is a very high quality media player that can also surf the web *very nicely* (though perhaps not as nicely as the N800) then they're going to save a wedge and go for the Touch. For most people it's as simple as that.

They would also be safe in the knowledge that their is a huge and growing hacking and support community surrounding the iPhone/Touch devices, a community which - let's face it - is probably already significantly larger than that of the Nokia NITs despite the NITs being around for far, far longer.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-08 at 19:44.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2007-10-08 , 19:52
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#22
Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post
So.... let's compare apples with *cough* apples (at least in terms of memory if nothing else!)

iPhone 16GB: £269 (Argos)
N800 + 2x 8GB SDHC: £239 + 2x £45 => £329 (Amazon and

£269 vs. £329... someone would have to be a real fan of Internet Tablets in order to lay down the extra notes and buy the N800. If all they wanted is a very high quality media player that can also surf the web *very nicely* (though perhaps not as nicely as the N800) then they're going to save a wedge and go for the Touch. For most people it's as simple as that.

They would also be safe in the knowledge that their is a huge and growing hacking and support community surrounding the iPhone/Touch devices, a community which - let's face it - is probably already significantly larger than that of the Nokia NITs despite the NITs being around for far, far longer.
The tablets are not locked into that memory size, a distinctive advantage. Cost also requires context.

As for hackers, Apple is working hard to counter them with antagonistic firmware updates. Hmmm... is it the same with the tablets...?
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vvaz is offline vvaz
2007-10-08 , 19:53
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#23
@MIlhouse

Don't you have to buy phone service with iPhone?
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2007-10-08 , 20:09
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#24
Originally Posted by vvaz View Post
@MIlhouse

Don't you have to buy phone service with iPhone?
Well yes, it's a phone.

But the cost of a phone service (whether it be for use with the Apple iPhone, a Nokia or a Sony Ericsson etc.) is something most of us pay for anyway, in which case I'm not sure it's particularly relevant. If you don't want the cellular phone part of the iPhone then buy a Touch as the Touch - like the N800 - has no cellular capability.

If we were to compare the iPhone+plan with N800+phone+plan+memory, perhaps the costs would be similar?
 
DingerX is offline DingerX
2007-10-08 , 20:12
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#25
Yeah, FBReader is nice; but I deal with reams of PDFs.

I remember reading somewhere someone saying "There is only one internet, and if your device cannot access it, you’re out of luck."

The same could be said of document formats. Yes, I grew up with text files; I remember when postscript was a new, cool thing, and network printers were these huge devices run by attendants, and if your 1000-page document got stuck in the queue behind a chinese-language newsletter, you were lost.

But right now, there is only one Portable Document Format, and if your deivce cannot render it, you're out of luck. So how about it? Allow evince to rotate 90 degrees? And let me flip pages without leaving full-screen mode (now someone will no doubt post and explain you can already do that.)

As far as the 60 quid goes, I don't need a music player, or a simple web browser. I need something that can serve as a portable reference, do light (and remote) data entry, and portable VoIP. It _sorta_ does those three things, plus stuff I hadn't thought of.

I wish the iPod/iPhone hackers the best of success with their cool devices. DRM/firmware locking is a continual cat-and-mouse game. The hackers will win, every time -- there's no way a team of paid professionals can forever foil a swarm of impassioned amateurs, but they can limit their influence by adopting the tactics they are in fact using.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2007-10-08 , 20:24
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#26
Originally Posted by DingerX View Post
The hackers will win, every time -- there's no way a team of paid professionals can forever foil a swarm of impassioned amateurs, but they can limit their influence by adopting the tactics they are in fact using.
Hacker wins tend to be temporary, and their efforts (along with the countermeasures) tend to harm legitimate customers.

I'd prefer doing business with the company that doesn't fight outside development so fiercely in the first place, and thus avoids the escalated "game".
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vvaz is offline vvaz
2007-10-08 , 20:35
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#27
Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post

If we were to compare the iPhone+plan with N800+phone+plan+memory, perhaps the costs would be similar?
I doubt. Phone - without gizmos, don't need them with N800 - I can buy for 20 pounds, and "plan" costs me about 3 pounds per month (my usual pre-paid card usage). Also this phone has good form, fitting nicely in hand.
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2007-10-08 , 21:00
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#28
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The tablets are not locked into that memory size, a distinctive advantage. Cost also requires context.
Quite so, but by the time 16GB SDHC cards are cheap and plentiful, my N800 will be collecting dust in a drawer and Apple will be shipping 32GB Touches!

As for context, I thought I gave it A media player first, web browsing second (as it's that order which will appeal to the masses, and not great web browser first, mediocre media player second). Pound for pound, the Touch appears to come out on top for the general public. Now, if you want to easily install ssh, dual boot operating systems, run xterm and other native apps etc. then the Touch begins to look somewhat shabby.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
As for hackers, Apple is working hard to counter them with antagonistic firmware updates. Hmmm... is it the same with the tablets...?
Apple devices are not for people who want to tinker. If I bought one I'm not sure I could be bothered to fight against Apple when there are better, easier and more enjoyable (ie. less antagonistic) alternatives. I'd just enjoy the Touch for what it is, and hack on the N800/OpenMoko/Intel MID. Those that do want to hack are probably fighting a losing battle (or at least a hard and everlasting battle), and would be better off spending their time and talents on more welcoming projects but that's just my opinion!
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-08 at 21:09.
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2007-10-08 , 21:05
Posts: 3,401 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ London, UK
#29
Originally Posted by vvaz View Post
I doubt. Phone - without gizmos, don't need them with N800 - I can buy for 20 pounds, and "plan" costs me about 3 pounds per month (my usual pre-paid card usage). Also this phone has good form, fitting nicely in hand.
Yeah, the cost of the phone and plan is hugely variable depending on what you want/need... £3/month is a very good plan indeed, although I doubt it includes data which is where some networks will rob you blind.

Sadly for me, I can't help but lust after a N95 8GB in black... And I've also been caning my O2 dial up for the last week - 512KB free per month, then something silly per additional MB... I'm not looking forward to next months bill. O2 and I will be parting ways by the end of this year for sure!
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2007-10-08 , 21:11
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#30
There was more context was my implication, and you did touch on part of it. The most important, as I keep preaching, is L-i-n-u-x.

And you may not want to hack the iPhone or iPod touch, but my comment was in response to those who do.
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