Helmuth | # 31 | 2010-10-23, 15:23 | Report

No, he can change the license of Stellarium after he has removed all the code made by others. Or he needs a agreement with the additional developers.

I don't like piracy, I don't like ovi and I also don't like developers who trickery other dedicated developers.

So it is a hard decision for me what I should hate the most.

But the fact is, if the source is not in the ovi package there must be a way to ask for the source and download it. I can't see a button at Ovi to ask for the source. Is there a Button in the Application or a Textfile in the package?
Or is Nokia indeed so arrogant that they are ignoring the License?

In this case, is it okay because it's Nokia?

javispedro | # 32 | 2010-10-23, 15:24 | Report

I see what you did there (basically, you just said: "So sue me").

The GPL allows anyone WHO GOT THE BINARY (and thus the source) to redistribute it to ANY third party.
If by some miracle ALL of the people who bought it in the Ovi Store, and received a copy of source, decided not to redistribute the binary... no one who hadn't bought it could get the binary or the source.
So, I hope you bought it (or got it from someone who bought it).

What I was trying to say there is that after any buyer decides to publish it (with source) to everyone, then the binary will be available to everyone. But i'd expect rates of legal freeloading similar if not slighty increased to the usual piracy rates of the Ovi Store, so the author will still make some money.

EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood question. Yes, anyone (again, who got it) might redistribute the original binary.

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Last edited by javispedro; 2010-10-23 at 15:31.

YoDude | # 33 | 2010-10-23, 15:37 | Report

Then so is this forum for providing the means to distribute...

The first step is to report the need take it down.

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Last edited by YoDude; 2010-10-23 at 15:39.

mmurfin87 | # 34 | 2010-10-23, 15:39 | Report

Actually, having some experience with Stellarium, I can tell you that there was an effort to offer the main developer (Fabien) a closed source license from all the developers precisely so he COULD sell Stellarium Mobile and some of his own personal enhancements and make a living after his current contract ended.

I believe that every developer with code, except one holdout, was ready to extend that license to him. The only holdout was someone with only trivial code, IIRC, so I imagine that Fabien might have replaced those commits with his own and Stellarium Mobile might very well be closed source, for the time being.

Here's my source:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/f...arium-pubdevel

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Last edited by mmurfin87; 2010-10-23 at 15:40. Reason: added source

hellnick | # 35 | 2010-10-23, 15:55 | Report

This is a great little application and it's a bargain for less than the price of a pint. I sort of regret giving my niece my telescope now... not that you can see much in London.

pantera1989 | # 36 | 2010-10-23, 16:06 | Report

Matan made a very bold move here. I don't agree with literally posting the package here, but I do agree to a certain extent with the point he's trying to make.

I will gladly pay the 3 euros once the facts are cleared up. I haven't even tried Stellarium Mobile yet, but it sounds promising.

But if one developer of stellarium still wanted to be under GPL, then OVI store or Fabien are committed to share the source, and Matan has every right to share it too.

Of course, if Fabien replaced the code with his own, then he alone can own the source (if he wants) and has every right to sell it.

But the facts should be cleared up once and for all. This has caused enough confusion as it is. And I don't like watching two of the most respected developers arguing..(it's like watching your parents fight).

IMO Matan should remove the package..at least until the real facts are brought to life.

lemmyslender | # 37 | 2010-10-23, 16:25 | Report

Aren't we all overlooking a fourth option?

According to the rules Nokia can "make available" the submission.

So potentially, the app being sold in Ovi, is being sold by Nokia, with all profit going to Nokia, and none to Fabien. Additionally, Nokia can give the source/app to whoever they want, including in PR1.3 if they wanted to as a default app.

In terms of encouraging developers, someone else distributing the source/app doesn't help. Any site/server owners are certainly free to prevent hosting it / linking to it on their site. That doesn't necessarily make what Matan has done "wrong", morally ambiguous, perhaps.

Not to excuse this, but let's not forget the Fabien has already gotten $25,000 for this app. Does anyone know if he shared any of these funds with the others that contributed portions of code to "his" app? If the app is being sold as GPL, then presumably at least one of the code contributors refused to re-license their part of the code, and apparently it wasn't code that could easily be removed. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

If it were me, I would've either insured that the code licensing was such that I could sell it without fear of others "legally" re-distributing it (and cutting into my sales) or I would've asked for donations instead. I'm sure that everyone here who purchased it, would've happily and promptly made a donation had it been distributed in that format.

Wouldn't it be better for FOSS in the long run if everyone donated directly to programmers instead of through app stores where part of the price goes to a corporation?

edgar2 | # 38 | 2010-10-23, 18:19 | Report

Now that is topic worth discussing. Some background; "Donations are not simplified and not enough emphasized". More recently, Flattr has been discussed as one way of donating for FOSS. Donations are also discussed in MeeGo context, see MeeGo User Engagement Framework Project and a related forum thread.

benny1967 | # 39 | 2010-10-23, 19:33 | Report

you know, you try to pretend you're defending free software and the ideals of the GPL and all that.
in the end, you're just a troublemaker who knowingly breaks the GPL just to attract attention and, in the end, makes everyone lose. (and i'm not talking about potential losses fabien or ovi might have; i'm talking about the fact that both nokia and developers may be watching what happens to stellariumobile now and how one could make free software and ovi compatible. you're not being helpful at all.)

*Sonic* | # 40 | 2010-10-23, 19:43 | Report

Can I ask (not sure if anyone would know)

Does Fabien get ANY of the money


Why is it 3 dollars if your in America ?
Why is it 3 pounds if you are in the UK ?
Why is it 3 euros if you are in the rest of Europe ?

Who set the price, Stellarium full desktop version is completly free, so is the more portable version we have had (probably the same version as the full desktop version) and the iphone app is free also

If this is purely Nokia making money then isnt that wrong ?

I would rather Fabien put a paypal option on his own website to sell the mobile version and not just have it in Ovi