droitwichgas | # 161 | 2011-02-01, 10:33 | Report

I can see we can read too much into that as I assume any new phones will be annouced seperately but surely they need to show a meego os phone of some kind as symbian seems dead in the water as far as high end smartphones go at the moment?

edgedemon | # 162 | 2011-02-01, 12:45 | Report

I couldn't agree more, Im hanging on hoping, but ideally I want to know my upgrade path and timescales by the summer...
Im getting device envy over the new phones being announced, and I want a new toy. The only thing holding me back is the wait for meego, and although the lure of Android is strong, I cant face moving to a closed system yet...

Sopwith | # 163 | 2011-02-01, 13:54 | Report

I never mentioned Windows as a solution and I don't think it was. However, at the time Windows tablets were the only ones available (say 5 years ago), there was no ARM hardware that could provide matching usability. I did not see a new OS replacing Windows on those tablets; instead, I saw new hardware replacing Intel based tablets. Therefore, my claim that hardware advancement was at the heart of progress remains.

Neither the iPhone nor the Droid is a tablet.

No, it isn't. Too tiny screen, an unsurmountable problem; phone functionality made price too high -- it's okay now, but it started at $850, remember?

No, I have not managed any understanding because nobody wants to ****ing meet me halfway. I am not dissing software importance, i am just saying lack of diverse hardware was one of the reasons Maemo did not enjoy as wide a success it could have. And that no other company would have been successful if it wasn't for the rapid advancement in hardware. For example, Apple's success was due to having a responsive touchscreen and offering a cheap iPod Touch (selling far better than the iPhone) that runs the same apps. That came first, and made the software boom possible. Apple's own marketing repeats the untruth that the software was most important, because that's their main differentiator.

But y'all are too smug to try to understand my point. I don't know what else, apart from trying to tell me that I don't understand anything (which I am ready to admit), you are trying to say? Is it that we don't need more diverse hardware from Nokia? That the strategy is yet another OS but same old feature phones (only with moar features now)? Sheesh!

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Last edited by Sopwith; 2011-02-01 at 14:01.

Helmuth | # 164 | 2011-02-01, 15:04 | Report

I would say thats pointless... the whole Hardware/Software - what is more important - discussion! (and perhaps a little bit offtopic)

That's the old chicken-and-egg problem. Remove the Battery from your N900 and you will see how much this peace of Hardware is without Software. And you could sell your N900 and run Maemo in Scratchbox at your Linux Desktop. But the benefit of Maemo is very small with your Desktop at home while you're on the go...

wmarone | # 165 | 2011-02-01, 16:37 | Report

You seem to be more interested in shouting me down than making a point.

Wait, so is this about tablets or smartphones? I have no use for unconnected tablets and won't argue about them.

No, it started at $650 and dropped $100 by the time I got mine. And without phone functionality I would never have bought it because, IMO, an "Internet Tablet" with limited ability to get on the internet is useless. Open WiFi isn't common enough. Just ask my old Axim X3 that languished in disuse for years.

Well, that and the user experience still needed a lot of work. I don't disagree that MORE hardware would have helped adoption, but at best Maemo would have needed at least one more pass of bugfixing and feature additions before it would be acceptable for most people, never mind working right without a keyboard.

No company in question would be successful without this advancement. Don't state the obvious.

Horrible user experiences will tear down any good hardware. For instance, the viewsonic g-tablet and notion ink adam arguably have good hardware (save the screens) but their crap software ruins the experience. Whereas Apple had a good experience on both of their ARM6 based processors, up until they overloaded them with newer versions of iOS.

Smug? No, I think you're just backing up my point and don't realize it.

So are we getting specific on Nokia, or talking in generalities? There's nothing wrong with more diverse hardware. But no one gives a damn if the experience sucks.

Bah, you're no fun.

More like, how good the hardware is without power

Sure, but that's completely not related to the point of discussion

Helmuth | # 166 | 2011-02-01, 17:11 | Report

Is it related to the "Nokia CEO Elop lays groundwork for new strategy to be announced next month, a move away from meego?" discussion or do you mean 'the other' one?

Sopwith | # 167 | 2011-02-01, 17:12 | Report

No, not really, and I do find your latest post closer to what I believe in. If I go back to the thread title, "Nokia CEO Elop lays groundwork for new strategy to be announced next month, a move away from meego?", I think it'll be clearer where I'm getting to.

I specifically target Nokia because it's in the thread title. I specifically talk about tablets because I believe that's where Nokia had an advantage and then squandered it completely by not putting an effort in hardware. I talk about software vs. hardware because the "strategy" in the title is a software move, which is misguided and irrelevant to the real problems, in my view.

A little comparison: since the beginning of 2008 until now (Feb 1, 2011), Nokia released 1 (one) product related to the NIT family: N900. During that time, several iterations of Symbian were done; a couple of different "steps" of Maemo coexisted, and MeeGo was eventually introduced. I would say a lot of revolutionary activity on the software front vs. merely nothing on the hardware one for three years.

Now look at Apple: Three hardware iterations of the iPod, three different iPhone, and the iPad -- all of them running backwards-compatible versions of iOS.

Now tell me again that revolutionizing the OS is the right step for Nokia.

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Last edited by Sopwith; 2011-02-01 at 17:15.

Helmuth | # 168 | 2011-02-01, 17:42 | Report

In MY opinion boot is required!

A new Hardware with the same Software bugs doesn't feel like a good idea to me as a MeeGo Handset at N900 Hardware would be a big mistake, too.

Nokia has done some good Hardware improvements. Look at the camera module from the N8. Sadly at the moment only for Symbian. But they have the Maemo/Meego platform already.
Put this camera module into a N900 like device sounds doable. And equip the Device with the next iteration of the ARM Cortex A8 is also doable if it doesn't need much more power as the 3 years older brother. And if the dualcore was available when the development started we will see it in our next Device, too.

But what is this new Hardware without finished Software?

And what if they have the Hardware since more than 6 Months ready but the Software is still in development?
Put Maemo5 on the Hardware and generate more upset users because they are unable to maintain it because they need their Manpower for Symbian and MeeGo?

We need booth. Finished Software and great Hardware.

etuoyo | # 169 | 2011-02-01, 18:02 | Report

There was a report that came out yesterday or so that showed android sold more than Symbian last quarter ( I think it included the Galaxy Tab sales but it is not Samsung or Google's fault there is no symbian tablet). Symbian did sell over 30 million so it is still in a good position but you have to say now that android has overtaken symbian I don't see anyway back.

I think Android is going to outsell symbian in every quarter and the gap is only going to get bigger and bigger. Once android hardware gets into the cheap £50 segment which Nokia dominates Nokia's sales are going to go lower and lower and they need to find a way to gather sales from where ever they can.

Nokia seems to be sitting still relying on the fact that for those looking for a cheap phone of satisfactory quality there is no choice other than Nokia. However, android does not seem ready to sit on its laurels and it looks like it is going to spell trouble for Nokia.

RIM has already taken a very huge chunk of Nokia potential customers with blackberry messanger attracting so many but that may pale in comparison to what android could do.

Having said that I don't see Nokia (from what we have seen in the last few years) being able to crack the US or attract new customers (would not be suprised if those still buying Nokia smart phones are those who have been buying Nokia phones previously).

So unless something changes drastically I think Nokia's best days are now behind it. Hopefully something drastic is the reason there is new management.

mikecomputing | # 170 | 2011-02-01, 18:03 | Report

I just have one world troll!