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9000 is offline 9000
2011-02-19 , 02:28
Posts: 1,425 | Thanked: 983 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Hong Kong
#1501
Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
This was my next (or second next?) post on it:

"Right. The 'trojan horse' term isn't helping proceedings at all, and we don't need any term to acknowledge that Elop has just chased the money. Whether that's being a TH to MS or just offering Nokia to the highest bidder is irrelevant, the end result (or initial goal) is hardly too different."

In any case, your posts were logical, but logical answers? I'm not so sure. From my own humble perspective, here's what would have been the best thing to do:
1) Continue Symbian. The N8 alone sold 5million handsets in its first 2 months, there IS demand for this OS and it's what keeps Nokia afloat.
2) Continue developing MeeGo.
3) Join MS with WP7 so that top-end devices can come out pretty quick, apps already exist, Nokia can hit the North American market etc etc all the reasons Elop gave for the merge.
4) When MeeGo is ready, release it.

This strategy is multi-purpose. Firstly, it keeps the huge userbase in Asia who use Symbian. Whether the OS gets phased out in a year's time or not is irrelevant, keep it going until you put something else on the market. This is especially important considering most of Nokia's earnings are from feature phones, not smartphones. Secondly, it still has 'live' OSs on the market. Thirdly, they have two high-end OSs on the market by this time next year. Destroying existing OSs on the market and putting everything into an unproven one is not sensible.
Your post is always enjoyable to read, but you don't really need to waste your time arguing with an iPhone fanboy who spend all his time astroturfing. His sig tells what he is.

You're right that Symbian has deeply penetrated Asia markets, in fact it is quite an ecosystem there, but not entirely under control of an appstore.
 
GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2011-02-19 , 03:09
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#1502
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I have to wonder one thing... how much longer would people have realistically waited for MeeGo to come out and how long do people think that Nokia had to pull that off convincingly.
Well, properly strung along with progress reports, I'd have waited until autumn, I would guess. With visible progress demonstrated, maybe longer, maybe next January. (But I'm not the usual user. I don't even want a smartphone, at least until I can pay per minute or per MB for the privilege of using the cell connection; I just want a small wi-fi tablet that's faster and more pocketable than my N800, to go with my dumbphone. But I also don't want my purchase of it to support some closed corporate ecoshitsym. It's possible that I'm part of that huge market that consists entirely of me and danramos.)
 

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2011-02-19 , 03:57
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#1503
Originally Posted by GeraldKo View Post
Well, properly strung along with progress reports, I'd have waited until autumn, I would guess.
That would have been 2 years after the release of the N900. I think unfortunately we've gotten used to yearly updates of phones and chipsets.

With visible progress demonstrated, maybe longer, maybe next January.
It would have had to have been amazing. Sadly, Honeycomb has my attention like I had hoped MeeGo would have.

It's possible that I'm part of that huge market that consists entirely of me and danramos.
Add me to that list. My N810 was great, an update to the CPU, that same size screen, if not slightly bigger, a keyboard... oh, I would have been so there.

But it didn't happen. We know the rest.
 
droll is offline droll
2011-02-19 , 04:33
Posts: 958 | Thanked: 483 times | Joined on May 2010
#1504
not sure if this has been posted but could this be better things for Nokia? http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/14/m...-multitasking/

as much as i hate the UNHOLY matrimony between these two companies, i really hope Nokia comes out a stronger and better company which can then re-execute its open source strategy somewhere in the future (as opposed to dying prematurely and disappearing off the face of the planet).
 
nocain is offline nocain
2011-02-19 , 05:00
Posts: 35 | Thanked: 19 times | Joined on Sep 2010
#1505
R
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I have to wonder one thing... how much longer would people have realistically waited for MeeGo to come out and how long do people think that Nokia had to pull that off convincingly.
Well I think I would have been fine waiting till October November, 1.2 was supposed to be production ready for handsets. So it could have come out sooner but by November 1.3 will be out, and unlike handset makers for android a meego handset maker doesn't need to wait until general availability to start adapting custom UI/UX for meego, they could start during the freeze 2 months prior to release since it is done publicly.

Basically they gained no time with the MS deal since they are not planning any WP devices till October the earliest. Any revenue enhancements they get in the next 10 months will be more from savings by laying off members of the symbian and meego team( around 2000 employees ) not from handset sales or the likes.
 

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niloy is offline niloy
2011-02-19 , 05:28
Posts: 105 | Thanked: 99 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ India
#1506
**** you elop, **** you
 

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Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2011-02-19 , 13:23
Posts: 670 | Thanked: 747 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
#1507
Originally Posted by nocain View Post
RBasically they gained no time with the MS deal since they are not planning any WP devices till October the earliest.
Exactly. This deal is not about bringing products to market significantly quicker, or better products, or joining an 'existing ecosystem' since at this point WP7 really doesn't have much more 'ecosystem' than Maemo5. If they wanted to bring new, better products to market sooner they would've worked harder and smarter on MeeGo/Qt, not thrown in the towel. If 'joining an existing ecosystem' really meant anything to Nokia they would've gone Android or to really kick butt enabled the Davlik VM on MeeGo.

And anyone - including Google - who believes there was ever a chance in hell Nokia would go with Android over WP7 is naive beyond help. Any so-called 'negotiations' between Elop/Nokia execs and the Google guys were only for show. Monkey Boy Ballmer had no doubt already sent carrier pigeons to Espoo with messages promising billions - whatever it would take for Nokia to go WP7 - long before Elop was hired. So M$ had already greased the wheels and the Nokia board already knew what they were gonna do when they hired Elop - that's why they hired him, to be their M$ go-between, the deal-maker, stupidly believing he would deal with M$ with their interests in mind. Instead, Elop made the best deal he could for M$ without getting himself criminally charged or shot. IOW, Elop didn't quit M$ to take another job with Nokia, he left M$ with their blessing to go be their guy in Espoo.

M$ knew they had this one last chance to squash mobile Linux and to make WP7 meaningful in the market. Nokia was the only company big enough to make it happen. And M$ could see that MeeGo/Qt on Nokia phones, especially with a Davlik VM, could be a real game-changer. Whatever it took, anything short of bankrupting the company M$ would've done for this deal. Nokia, however, still had real options - MeeGo/Symbian/Qt or Android - and chose to make a deal with the devil and grab the cash. The Nokia board was weak and foolish, and/or blinded by blazing M$ billions. They were still holding a much stronger hand than they realized. They might even have won the pot had they stuck with it. Now they're just losers in business poker.

I couldn't care less what happens to Nokia. But I really feel badly for those losing jobs. For most of them at least, it didn't have to happen.
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Last edited by Crashdamage; 2011-02-20 at 00:58.
 

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zimon is offline zimon
2011-02-19 , 13:32
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#1508
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I have to wonder one thing... how much longer would people have realistically waited for MeeGo to come out and how long do people think that Nokia had to pull that off convincingly.
Till next autumn, before xmas.

How long you are realistically willing to wait the first high end WP8 Nokia Phone? The plan would be to get it in the first half of 2012, but I make an educated guess it will be in the later half of 2012. Making all OS-code thread-safe is no picnic to make, test, debug and iterate.

What it comes to low end phones (no dual-core cpu), Symbian works still better than WP7. Nokia may try to replace some of its low- end middle-end phones from Symbian to WP7, but it was still stupid to shoot Symbian dead now when they still have to use it.
Last edited by zimon; 2011-02-19 at 16:57.
 

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Funklord is offline Funklord
2011-02-19 , 15:18
Posts: 69 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Sweden
#1509
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
That does not even make sense.
Did you not understand?

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
And the reverse can also be true.
Stupid or damaging short term decisions can always be made while holding onto long term idealist goals.
Sure, as long as the following can be assumed too:
1. Elop with his business degree knows better than 5000 developers.
2. Pigs fly.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
Since they live and breathe money, cashflow issues may restrict a corporation from reaching mid-long term goals.
Throwing away all good technology and replacing it with technology proven bad is more likely to restrict a corporation from reaching their goal, since cashflow has a multitude of possible sources and technology doesn't.

It's obvious, for the MS-Nokia deal to even start being profitable to Nokia, MS would have to give Nokia at least the amount of money spent on developing Maemo.
I'm pretty sure we're not talking about numbers anywhere close to that.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
Both have to be aligned for a company to continue to sustain itself.
Amassing wealth for a few individuals is parasitic on the corporation as a whole, it means at some point the corporation will be gutted at the expense of thousands of workers, and customers.
I'm not judging, just observing.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
Right. We need to look to small companies because.....
- they can't afford to setup an appstore ecosystem?
- they're not doing this for the money? (good luck surviving and growing)
- they have idealist people unfamiliar with business? (well it's just a matter of time before they grow up and learn)
Wrong, small companies need to innovate in order to be profitable, large ones don't.
 
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ossipena is offline ossipena
2011-02-19 , 15:28
Posts: 3,159 | Thanked: 2,023 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland
#1510
Originally Posted by rash.m2k View Post
Despite what people say about Maemo or the N900 - it WAS a hit! Just not quite as big as Nokia wanted it to be.
actually it was exactly the opposite...
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