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BigBadGuber! is offline BigBadGuber!
2011-02-21 , 19:03
Banned | Posts: 706 | Thanked: 296 times | Joined on May 2010
#1621
Nokia stock is rising again.

Asians are no different than Americas or Europe, Symbian is losing and losing fast. In Europe only 1 out of 5 sold phones is Symbian. all of the friends in europe that I have use iphone.

Maemo/Meego. They tried. How many did they sell? Bingo. Maemo was step 5 out of 6 or whatever, iphone with step 1 was a bestseller. You cant make a turkey platform into an eagle.

Nokia will gain much more than MS. Microsoft is taking a gamble that NOKIA can execute. I think that Symbian and Maemo point to the opposite. Nokia has good hardware, but I see no reason why Asian produced will not catch up and match it. Nokia software was good for non touch screen phones, but it can not compete in the high end spectrum.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-02-21 , 19:08
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1622
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Maemo/Meego. They tried.
No they didn't. Nokia's old guard crippled and hindered the project the whole way, instead of allowing the project to get the resources needed to truly get underway. You can see this in the N97 and N8 both being heralded as the flagship devices despite having lesser hardware than the N900.

How many did they sell? Bingo. Maemo was step 5 out of 6 or whatever, iphone with step 1 was a bestseller. You cant make a turkey platform into an eagle.
Apple has hype like nobody else. Maemo/MeeGo was never given a chance internally by Nokia, having been perpetually sidelined.

Nokia will gain much more than MS. Microsoft is taking a gamble that NOKIA can execute.
Well, they did just gut the company. Nokia will, however, be assuming all the risk of the WP7 platform. If it doesn't catch and Nokia gets displaced anyway then Microsoft walks away unscathed while Nokia gets eaten alive by the market.

I think that Symbian and Maemo point to the opposite. Nokia has good hardware, but I see no reason why Asian produced will not catch up and match it. Nokia software was good for non touch screen phones, but it can not compete in the high end spectrum.
Nonsense, the people who showed they were interested in making it work were simply never allowed the resources necessary to compete.
 

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BigBadGuber! is offline BigBadGuber!
2011-02-21 , 19:12
Banned | Posts: 706 | Thanked: 296 times | Joined on May 2010
#1623
Its all the excuses of this or that that brought NOKIA to where it is. Excuse for Maemo not advertised, for symbian with no resources. If you look at the money they were throwing at symbian and maemo, more than what apple spent on development, they had plenty of resources.

If I was in Elop's shoes I would have done the same. NOKIA was sputtering for the past 3 years.

The bottom line was money. Symbian losing share. Maemo selling nothing. Who wants to wait????
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-02-21 , 19:16
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1624
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Its all the excuses of this or that that brought NOKIA to where it is. Excuse for Maemo not advertised, for symbian with no resources. If you look at the money they were throwing at symbian and maemo, more than what apple spent on development, they had plenty of resources.
Monetary resources, yes, but not internal Nokia resources which goes way beyond merely money. If some manager gets a bug up his *** about some project he thinks threatens his position and has the power to interfere, he might. I suspect that's what has been going on.

Otherwise we might have had a Maemo based phone device years ago. MeeGo, of course, was given less than a year while the Symbian teams charged ahead with lackluster releases.

If I was in Elop's shoes I would have done the same. NOKIA was sputtering for the past 3 years.

The bottom line was money. Symbian losing share. Maemo selling nothing. Who wants to wait????
Wait, so instead of cleaning house of all the bureaucrats and self-interested managers causing slowdowns and a complete lack of forward motion you'd blame the platforms, can the developers, and put your company's fate in the hands of one known to destroy its partners when it felt it benefited?

But all of this argument is nonsense. Nokia has decided upon WP7, the "generic PC" version of iOS that is completely outside my interests and, thus, Nokia is as well barring some miraculously well supported and open MeeGo device release.
Last edited by wmarone; 2011-02-21 at 19:19.
 

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BigBadGuber! is offline BigBadGuber!
2011-02-21 , 19:22
Banned | Posts: 706 | Thanked: 296 times | Joined on May 2010
#1625
Looks like you have an inside scoop on Nokia management. If the mess was so bad as you insinuate, It would have taken Elop years to figure out all the problems and put things on tracks. It will still take him a long time to clean up the house and put it on the WP7 track. That is why I said that this deal is great for NOKIA, but not so great for MS. They are giving billions to NOKIA, and NOKIA needs to get their act together to execute.

The other good thing of switching to MS. You have an excuse to fire a whole lot of incompetent software leaders at NOKIA!
 
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ME2g is offline ME2g
2011-02-21 , 19:23
Posts: 168 | Thanked: 58 times | Joined on Aug 2010 @ Vienna
#1626
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Nokia software was good for non touch screen phones, but it can not compete in the high end spectrum.
That is only true for Symbian.
But not for Maemo.
Maemo was offering functionality long ago which WP7 does not
offer now.
For sure this Nokia software was/is far superior to WP7
and it can compete with WP7.
For competing with Android or iOS Nokia would have to invest more into hyping and doing tiny tweaks to the UI.

Some mode for non geeks to avoid making the device to a brick
would have been good to sell it like Android and iOS.

If Nokia invested the same amount of money into Maemo/MeeGo
that MS invested/invests in WP7 (OS, advertisement, bug fix -well no...MS only starts investing into bug fixing if
at all...), then Maemo would be on par with Android and iOS.

Nokia simply missed this point.
And WP7 is the wrong way to catch up.
 

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rm42 is offline rm42
2011-02-21 , 19:24
Posts: 963 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Connecticut, USA
#1627
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Maemo/Meego. They tried. How many did they sell?
I don't think Nokia has ever released this figure, have they? All we ever heard was that it sold beyond expectations. Nokia's executives always acted like they didn't really wanted it to sell. I think the old guard were still hoping that Symbian would take off. They were never fully behind Maemo/Meego.
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-02-21 , 19:30
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1628
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Looks like you have an inside scoop on Nokia management.
Not really, but Elop has always been in a position to make sweeping changes but completely failed to do so.

If the mess was so bad as you insinuate, It would have taken Elop years to figure out all the problems and put things on tracks. It will still take him a long time to clean up the house and put it on the WP7 track.
Yet it will apparently only take to the end of the year to get WP7 devices out. Things move fast when you actually remove roadblocks.

That is why I said that this deal is great for NOKIA, but not so great for MS. They are giving billions to NOKIA, and NOKIA needs to get their act together to execute.
It's great for MS. For a pittance they get someone to basically assume all the risk of going exclusive with their platform. Nokia will sink or swim on WP7 now, and MS will sit back and watch. No one else was willing to take that risk.

The other good thing of switching to MS. You have an excuse to fire a whole lot of incompetent software leaders at NOKIA!
Well, the managers who are blamed by people on the inside for the standstill are apparently being retained. Instead, they'll be firing a lot of programmers, likely indiscriminately of their talents or drive.

Of course, the shift to WP7 ensures I will most likely not be their customer in the future. Switching to horribly locked down, anti-user systems are not a good way of keeping my business.
 

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mishmich is offline mishmich
2011-02-21 , 19:34
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 191 times | Joined on May 2010 @ New Zealand
#1629
Originally Posted by Funklord View Post
Not all coders are technology nymphomaniacs. Some of us have actually found what works best for certain tasks, and stick with it.

I've been using Qt in professional life for maybe 4-5 yrs now, never had to touch .net or microsoft stuff after Qt came out.
It's very simple, choose the wrong toolkit, and you won't find any developers. (or the ones you find, you won't want)
I'm certainly not ever going to code for .net, they had their chance to put Qt and blew it.

It's extremely rude to force people to learn technologies that are INFERIOR.
It all depends who is paying. The nymphomaniac metaphor is inappropriate - technology whore would be more appropriate. I would do whatever I was paid to do. If I was paid to do MS, I did MS - if I was paid to do UNIX, I did UNIX. Professionals do what they are paid to do.

Mish.
 
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jperez2009 is offline jperez2009
2011-02-21 , 19:34
Posts: 250 | Thanked: 122 times | Joined on May 2009 @ Colorado
#1630
Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! View Post
Its all the excuses of this or that that brought NOKIA to where it is. Excuse for Maemo not advertised, for symbian with no resources. If you look at the money they were throwing at symbian and maemo, more than what apple spent on development, they had plenty of resources.

If I was in Elop's shoes I would have done the same. NOKIA was sputtering for the past 3 years.

The bottom line was money. Symbian losing share. Maemo selling nothing. Who wants to wait????
Maybe you fail to realize what's been going on, maybe you choose to fail to realize it because perhaps you are a fan of Windows and Microsoft in general.

MeeGo did have an excellent chance to blossom in the mobile market, had it been given a chance. Google with Android and Apple with iOS weren't really given a high chance of survival out in the smartphone world, but somehow they made it and they made it big. Windows Phone...wtf is that? I barely see it being used anywhere. On TV all I see is Android (Java + Linux kernel) and the iPhone. I think I've only ever seen ONE Windows Phone and still I barely see it.

Yes, I will agree Nokia has a bad rap for not advertising their good phones and stuff, but they are so used to not doing so due to Symbian being a phone for the low/mid-end and just showing up and being the first choice to low-income or budget conscience people. Oh and you dare not tell me that those people don't matter since the majority of people out in the world are always looking for the most inexpensive thing out there that works, which Symbian phones did and still do.

What Elop is doing is destroying Nokia from the inside. It's like a hostile take over from the 1980's in America, but a lot more cunning and stealthy. They persuaded, I'm sure I know how, the BOB for Nokia into thinking WP7 was their best bet and they threw out the old CEO and replaced him with an M$ employee that would do just as M$ wanted; take over Nokia, destroy the MeeGo line (even after proclaiming it was going to be his and the companies main focus) before it actually takes root and gut Nokia of it's IP's. When Nokia is nothing but a shell or worse, they abandon it and go after someone else. Check the history of Microsoft's partnerships. See how far most of them got before they were turned into crap.

Look, I'm not saying the former CEO was any better, but this guy is leading Nokia to corporate suicide. You don't have to believe me, but you'll see it soon enough. Just wait and see and you'll understand exactly what your little "Windows" company will turn Nokia into. Plus, show me some up-to-date information of their "rise in stock" or I'm calling BS just to further your own trollish agenda.

Jesse~
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