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2011-03-11
, 01:09
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Posts: 1,425 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Hong Kong
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#1772
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Originally Posted by MaddogG
What our real concern is the encumbrance of IPs within, and the legal implication when distributing devices with the Android market apps. Our buyers (who pay us to OEM) would eventually bear the legal cost when any disputes arise, thus directly affect our business deals with them.
Ok, but Android = Big G and MeeGo = Intel (more or less). If you want to invest your "resources on something with minimum control from big brand", why don't you start with something completely community driven, like SHR or Openmoko? I think because community is not enough...it's essential, but not enough. Probably you need to have some certainties that only a "big brand" can provide. Am I wrong?
Android is actually quite an open platform for developing/porting, and Google is opening it more and more. MeeGo is backed/initiated by Intel, but their intention is to sell more chips, and we'd gladly comply.
Heck the most difficult part for us is to make a product with heavily reliance on chips from manufacturers with very limited production capability. E.g. we received a contract to produce10,000 devices with Fuiji chips, and unfortunately Fuiji could only give us 5000 annually, and this is a very awkward situation you can imagine. We welcome Intel to stick her foot into the embedded market as they've much better production capacity. We'd be grateful to produce device on Intel chips.
That's one of the major reason why the embedded market in general welcome MeeGo. It's because of Intel, not Nokia. We are glad to see Nokia go, as in practise they're our competitor (but not the major one, they're real slow to market in production)
P.S. Above is from the third party manufacturer point of view of course, you might think differently. That's okay. Have a nice day.
Last edited by 9000; 2011-03-11 at 01:13.
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2011-03-11
, 01:24
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#1773
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Originally Posted by ericsson
Where did this "fragmentation" nonsense come from? Oh right, people who championed the utter homogeneity of the iPhone platform.
OK so diversity is good and fragmentation is bad?
I don't see the differense, only different semantics. Diversity is not bad per se, but when it makes everyone (re)inventing the core wheels over and over again, it is not good for business.
Diversity in apps is good for business, diversity in core components is not, not if you want diversity in apps.
Zimon's point, that you are poorly attempting to use as a base to bash Linux from, is that unless the whole of the open source community gives up on the diversity of their ideas and homogenizes into a singular platform, they are dumb, irrational, wrong, and it's all their fault that Nokia has failed.
Qt will theoretically solve lots of fragmentation problems, but only if Qt is not fragmented.
Linux is about making "yet another" - something that does some core functionality. Not better than the others, only different and incompatible with the others.
Originally Posted by Qrchack
Your argument is completely off the wall, I honestly cannot follow it. There is no reason you cannot have multiple layers of complexity and capability in a single device. But you insist on attacking people from a point of view that has no real relevance on what is (or presumably once was) a highly technical end-user forum.
It is huge problem, as you, MaddogG and few others presented before: i bet most of your friends are far smarter then i am (no irony here, really), you don't care about averages and You don't understand them (You don't even try). You don't understand, that for many ppl even running a game on an emulator is to big trouble - because it needs two clicks, not just one. Again, again and again. when u tern your back against them You will loose. As n900 lost. as maemo did.
Last edited by wmarone; 2011-03-11 at 01:28.
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2011-03-11
, 04:57
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#1774
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Originally Posted by wmarone
Please, I know what I have written. It is much better if you write a coherent post explaining your arguments (if any).
Where did this "fragmentation" nonsense come from? Oh right, people who championed the utter homogeneity of the iPhone platform.
Who said this was only about business? How the hell are you going to force people who have zero obligation to you, to give up their ideas and work on something else? Who chooses the winners?
Generally, of course, from the Linux perspective it's not an issue because the application software is open source. MeeGo is attempting to provide a standardized base for proprietary things to target.
Zimon's point, that you are poorly attempting to use as a base to bash Linux from, is that unless the whole of the open source community gives up on the diversity of their ideas and homogenizes into a singular platform, they are dumb, irrational, wrong, and it's all their fault that Nokia has failed.
Why bring Qt up? It's not relevant.
I get this growing suspicion that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are simply grasping at straws to bash Linux.
Your argument is completely off the wall, I honestly cannot follow it. There is no reason you cannot have multiple layers of complexity and capability in a single device. But you insist on attacking people from a point of view that has no real relevance on what is (or presumably once was) a highly technical end-user forum.
Qt is relevant because it is one of the single most defragmentive (if such a word exist) piece(s) of software within the Linux community and across platforms. I know people like to diversify, do things different, do it their way instead of applying to a predetermined set of rules. Qt forces you to do things the Qt way. Lots of people don't like the Qt way, but they like the benefits of less coding for different platforms, coding with ease across a fragmented world.
It looks to me you are simply defending defending Linux because you "love" Linux, and for all other purposes your head is buried deep into the sand. Fragmentation has killed Linux, it is the single most important factor Linux is not on everyones PC. Android is the only real success Linux has had, and the reason is that Google stopped fragmantation just enough so that people can write apps using one API. Some say Android is not Linux anymore, and they are probably right.
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2011-03-11
, 05:08
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Posts: 402 |
Thanked: 451 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ India
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#1775
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Originally Posted by zimon
And that is only till 2007!
Could you give an example how for example these models would be named to have a better name?
http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_ima...a_timeline.jpg
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maemo.org - Custom Google Search
maemo.org - Custom Google Search
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2011-03-11
, 16:17
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Posts: 69 |
Thanked: 41 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Sweden
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#1776
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Originally Posted by ericsson
Fragmentation is what happens when something isn't good enough, at least in the free software world.
OK so diversity is good and fragmentation is bad? I don't see the differense, only different semantics. Diversity is not bad per se, but when it makes everyone (re)inventing the core wheels over and over again, it is not good for business. Diversity in apps is good for business, diversity in core components is not, not if you want diversity in apps. Qt will theoretically solve lots of fragmentation problems, but only if Qt is not fragmented.
Linux is about making "yet another" - something that does some core functionality. Not better than the others, only different and incompatible with the others.
The bar is set much higher than in commercial software since the goal is "good software" not money. Before a piece of software is perfect, there's always someone who will think the current development direction is wrong, and try to do it in a different way, maybe just to prove a point.
Anything which is less than perfect is, in effect, a moving target, and therefore impossible to standardise on.
Talking about a stable ABI in the Linux world is like talking about the devil to a monotheist. We simply don't need it, and don't want it either.
It's simple facts of life like this, that the LSB just "doesn't get", that's why they've been reduced to a laughing-stock for a decade now.
I'd be as bold to say that Linux is reducing fragmentation across the market of intelligent devices as a whole.
There are more "devices" using more similar software components than ever before.
Your computer, router, phone, media player, printer, television etc. etc. are soon all using Linux (if not, they most certainly are using gnu or at least posix), and most components of the system, regardless of distro are basically the same.
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2011-03-11
, 16:20
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#1777
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Originally Posted by ericsson
Qt is not currently at risk of fragmentation. The argument here is that Linux is "fragmented" because people do their own thing and that's somehow a horrible, no good, very bad thing that brought down Nokia.
Qt is relevant because it is one of the single most defragmentive (if such a word exist) piece(s) of software within the Linux community and across platforms.
It looks to me you are simply defending defending Linux because you "love" Linux, and for all other purposes your head is buried deep into the sand.
Fragmentation has killed Linux, it is the single most important factor Linux is not on everyones PC.
Android is the only real success Linux has had, and the reason is that Google stopped fragmantation just enough so that people can write apps using one API. Some say Android is not Linux anymore, and they are probably right.
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2011-03-11
, 22:41
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#1778
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Originally Posted by Funklord
I think part of the problem is that "fragmentation" has become a dirty word instead of looking at it pragmatically for what it is without immediate prejudice. The problem here is that one person's "branching' or "forking" is another person's "fragmenting."
Fragmentation is what happens when something isn't good enough, at least in the free software world.
Personally, I am not at all opposed to "fragmenting" things if it's done appropriately.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-03-12
, 00:19
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Posts: 69 |
Thanked: 41 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Sweden
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#1779
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The real fragmentation is coming from commercial interests, creating things like iphone, android and webos, who purposely try to create their own "software eco-system" (sorry about the bad language) in order to try to exclude other companies, users and operating systems.
With enough bad luck, one of them might succeed.
History shows that free software is only used by the masses in cases where it is utterly superior to the competition. If it's only slightly or much better than the rest, there's all kinds of anti-linux and pro-commercial propaganda to turn users away, and having them use marketed systems instead. That's why your regular joe won't ever choose Linux unless it's their only option.
To them Linux is that pain-in-the-*** system only geeks use for no other reason than them wanting to be geeky.
The talk about "linux is fragmented" just proves this point, it's pure marketing talk that spreads like wildfire, with no actual proof, and how can it when such a statement is so vague.
With enough bad luck, one of them might succeed.
History shows that free software is only used by the masses in cases where it is utterly superior to the competition. If it's only slightly or much better than the rest, there's all kinds of anti-linux and pro-commercial propaganda to turn users away, and having them use marketed systems instead. That's why your regular joe won't ever choose Linux unless it's their only option.
To them Linux is that pain-in-the-*** system only geeks use for no other reason than them wanting to be geeky.
The talk about "linux is fragmented" just proves this point, it's pure marketing talk that spreads like wildfire, with no actual proof, and how can it when such a statement is so vague.
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2011-03-12
, 01:17
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 747 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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#1780
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Originally Posted by ericsson
That's it, gotta say something...
Android is the only real success Linux has had,
I guess you haven't considered or don't know about the incredible success - including real, money-making, commercial success - Linux has had on servers, etc, etc. That most of the web runs on Linux servers. The Russian government is going all-Linux. And China. And Google, probably your bank, thousands of companies - hell, even M$ Update - all run on Linux servers. Plus the millions of users running WebOS or Maemo, and/or a multitude of Linux distros on millions of desktops/laptops. And on and on and on.
Yet, Linux has nothing but Android...?
...and the reason is that Google stopped fragmantation just enough so that people can write apps using one API.
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Registered Linux user #266531.
Registered Linux user #266531.
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