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	volt	2012-05-13 , 06:33
	Posts: 1,309 \| Thanked: 1,187 times \| Joined on Nov 2008	#1221

Originally Posted by Cue

I'm going to predict this will not convert to the same marketshare as the survey (that's my prediction which you can come back to), I think once they find out their x86 programs won't run on them most will change their minds.

Ya, you don't need to be an analyst to come with that prediction. I.e., most people who'd want it to be a stronger tool would want a desktop OS like Windows 8, and many of those will end up thinking ARM is not good enough or i386 is too expensive. But many, many would want Windows simply because they recognize it from their their computer.

The survey shows interest, not future market share.

Personally, I'm not interested in W8 tablets unless i386 compatible. Why would I want an lightweight app-OS? Metro without full Windows is just a new attempt at creating an iOS/Appstore clone. The full Windows 8 with Metro sounds real schitzo to me, though.

Still, the survey suggests that people want Windows on tablets. I concur, since I come from the camp of few and satisfied TabletPC owners. A Slate PC with 512 levels, touch sensitive, multi core i386-compatible Adobe Photoshop running drawing board. Yes, it's a stretch to call that a tablet. But that's what I want.

Microsoft sold those devices, before the iPad. But back then they were running XP Tablet PC Edition,, it was expensive and not at all touch friendly. I've been having a TabletPC since 2005 and I'm not going to replace that until I find a tempting device with touch levels.

I already have a Tab 10.1 through work. It's a toy, not a tool.

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Last edited by volt; 2012-05-13 at 07:15.

jotoco	2012-05-13 , 07:35
Posts: 103 \| Thanked: 114 times \| Joined on Jul 2010	#1222

Originally Posted by danramos

Fine.. fine... https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...sageek.stickit

good advice.

Originally Posted by danramos

What the hell are you babbling about? At least CAD software is even AVAILABLE on Android--that's a far bit better than the N9/N900 productivity experience already. Who KNOWS what the experience will be like on x86 Windows tablets and whatever limitations they might have. They don't even exist to purchase yet and, given Microsoft's past trends, they HAVE tried to limit and cripple experiences on their operating system--Why shouldn't Windows 8 experience the joys of crippleware?

I did say if it had support for that it would do those things....

Originally Posted by danramos

There is no Android 2.5, as Gerbick already pointed out. Did you even look?

It must be it, since it is the last official version (for the Sammy galaxy tab), and it is kinda hard to look on something you don't own anymore, like I already said.

Originally Posted by danramos

Didn't he, earlier, point out that he has an Asus Transformer? I had a coworker with the TF-101 and I can ABSOLUTELY confirm that it supports bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth mouse, as well as USB keyboard and USB mouse IN ADDITION to the keyboard/trackpad dock that was made to work with it. There's absolutely no excuse for claiming that it can't and I can confirm that first-hand on precisely that model. For the record, I have both Android 2.3.5 (Galaxy Tab) and Android 4.0.4 (Galaxy Nexus) and they both support bluetooth keyboards and mice... so even the Android version isn't really much of an excuse.

Also, yes--there's a PLETHORA of very good office apps available (Google Docs, ThinkFree Office, DocumentsToGo, OfficeSuite, etc.).

[/quote]

For you and the guy above, I never claimed they didn't support KB or Mouse, I just listed it as needed. And I wouldn't use it THAT much. but would be nice to have around.

Cue	2012-05-13 , 07:57
Posts: 840 \| Thanked: 823 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#1223

Originally Posted by volt

Ya, you don't need to be an analyst to come with that prediction. I.e., most people who'd want it to be a stronger tool would want a desktop OS like Windows 8, and many of those will end up thinking ARM is not good enough or i386 is too expensive. But many, many would want Windows simply because they recognize it from their their computer.

The survey shows interest, not future market share.

You are right it doesn't take an analyst but clearly the analyst who did this research did so pointlessly then. My main point was that the survey itself is both obvious and misleading to what possible actionable intelligence it provides. Windows 8 is an anomaly on that list since it doesn't state WoA, so people will confuse it with the x86 variant (which I assume was meant and what the survey expects you to infer). It's the only x86 OS listed in the survey. It's akin to a survey asking "what bike do you want" then listing a number of bicycles and one which people associate with a popular motorcycle. Different market, different needs, different price, it makes the survey pointless because these already exist yet do not really compete with the other. What actionable intelligence does that sort of comparison provide? yes it may show an interest in motorcycles but it didn't take a survey to show it. Nor does it prove a stronger interest in motorcycles over bicycles.

Basically you cannot come to any conclusion from this survey. It's pointless.

	danramos	2012-05-13 , 09:03
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#1224

Originally Posted by jotoco

It must be it, since it is the last official version (for the Sammy galaxy tab), and it is kinda hard to look on something you don't own anymore, like I already said.

I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab with the latest version they upgraded to, it's Android 2.3.5 (Gingerbread). Not that it matters greatly to know it at this point, then, but that's likely the version yours was running. I'm planning to stick Android 4.0.4 on mine tonight or tomorrow night sometime. I already have the ROM and I'm about to do a roto-backup and then flash it. Wish me luck. heh

Originally Posted by jotoco

For you and the guy above, I never claimed they didn't support KB or Mouse, I just listed it as needed. And I wouldn't use it THAT much. but would be nice to have around.

Fair enough on all counts, then, and agreed. I'm using a Logitech bluetooth keyboard and a Logitech bluetooth mouse with both my Tab and my Nexus and they're excellent to work with--extremely pocket-portable too. ESPECIALLY with Ice Cream Sandwich--it finally feels like a proper computer on ICS now that they've corrected everything I kept complaining to them about the keyboard and mouse (right click is a real right-click instead of back, now.. mouse-overs work in browsers and apps, etc.). ICS (well, actually ALL versons of Android, but ICS handles it PERFECTLY) support multiple-monitors--so you can actually have cloning as well as extended/seperate screens. For me, ICS is pretty close to almost exactly the OS I've been looking for--now it just seems to need good hardware to run on. I'd bet all it needs is just some good heavy-duty software for you to like it.

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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR

specc	2012-05-13 , 21:09
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#1225

Originally Posted by Cue

You are right it doesn't take an analyst but clearly the analyst who did this research did so pointlessly then. My main point was that the survey itself is both obvious and misleading to what possible actionable intelligence it provides. Windows 8 is an anomaly on that list since it doesn't state WoA, so people will confuse it with the x86 variant (which I assume was meant and what the survey expects you to infer). It's the only x86 OS listed in the survey. It's akin to a survey asking "what bike do you want" then listing a number of bicycles and one which people associate with a popular motorcycle. Different market, different needs, different price, it makes the survey pointless because these already exist yet do not really compete with the other. What actionable intelligence does that sort of comparison provide? yes it may show an interest in motorcycles but it didn't take a survey to show it. Nor does it prove a stronger interest in motorcycles over bicycles.

Basically you cannot come to any conclusion from this survey. It's pointless.

I think the main point here is that Android and the latest version, ICS in particular, seem to be the perfect OS from most peoples point of view, "ordinary" consumers and geeks alike. Whatever MS cooks up now and in the near future, it is already too late, it is already irrelevant. We have seen that with the Lumia 800 in Europe the last 1/2 year.

No one really dislikes WP or the Lumia, it's a great product. It just doesn't offer anything that you don't already have on an Android device. The Android device in the same price range offers more. Apple will soon have to reinvent themselves, but as of today WP is too early to really snatch the bulk of Apple users. Early adopters of the iPhone like the Lumia 800/900 though, and with the 610 and future devices I would think Nokia could catch and hold on to a decent market share, say 10-20 percent if they are lucky.

Google though, is more like a force of nature. They will be untouchable as the market share leader for a long long time. At some point Nokia would have to make Android devices as well unless they are satisfied with 10% market share. But then again, maybe Nokia will be satisfied with those 10 percent as long as those 10 percent gives a decent profit. Going Android means no profit unless you are Samsung.

What is preventing Google from going desktop? Well, nothing it seems I remember when mainframes like Digital and SGI ruled for everything but office and gaming. It was almost impossible to believe that rubber band powered PC's running MS Windows would take over, but they did. I see the same thing happening now. Even though it's close to impossible to believe that a tablet type of device can in any way replace a true gaming PC or CAD work station or even office desktop, that is the way it is headed. The synergy between hardware and software that pushed things forward existed between Intel and MS. Now that synergy exist only between Android and ARM based hardware. You may think that an ARM based PC cannot compete with the advanced, complex and high performance Intel X86, but IMO they are already there. The difference in performance and complexity between an SGI work station and a 486 based PC was much larger than this. Android and Atom may also work just fine.

A long rant, but I mean, there is nothing noble in fighting the inevitable. ICS may not be perfect from all angles, but it is better than anything that has ever existed before, all thing considering. Android will lead the way and shape the future, but as it gets bigger, the paste will be slower. Other smaller OSes will be able to catch up, like iOS and WP, and may live as profitable niche products (or not).

mikecomputing	2012-05-14 , 00:17
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#1226

If Nokia Was Smart o Released Both Windowstablet and,a Maemo Tablet they Would have A Chance Too take Alot From Android/iphone Thats For Sure...

Right Now There Is Just Crappy Tablets On The Market

	danramos	2012-05-14 , 00:21
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#1227

Originally Posted by specc

...but as it gets bigger, the paste will be slower.

The paste shall indeed be slower. Keep a careful eye on that paste, folks. My favorite typo/miswording of the month.

It could only have been improved if you had written in the next sentence, instead, "Other smaller OSes will be able to ketchup."

All kidding aside, I believe you're probably right.

Lumiaman	2012-05-14 , 00:39
Guest \| Posts: n/a \| Thanked: 0 times \| Joined on	#1228

Both WP and NOKIA have plenty of cash to sustain a long fight. I do think that they will form the third ecosystem and will be profitable. NOKIA will shrink, that is given and necessary. Relying on Taliban phones for far too long, and neglecting to push out the future, killed them.

specc	2012-05-14 , 10:43
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#1229

Originally Posted by Lumiaman

Both WP and NOKIA have plenty of cash to sustain a long fight. I do think that they will form the third ecosystem and will be profitable. NOKIA will shrink, that is given and necessary. Relying on Taliban phones for far too long, and neglecting to push out the future, killed them.

what exactly is a taliban phone?