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2014-09-30
, 16:38
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#122
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Mmh, well not really. It is not so straightforward. @pichlo, You can be assured that the Jolla device is not Android, it is Linux: pure and simple.
Wait... Android? I bought Jolla because I've been told it runs Linux. Now you are telling me that it is actually an Android device in disguise? I have never installed the Android support and was delaying it for as long as possible. Does the above mean that it does not matter anyway and I may as well install it right now?
Originally Posted by javispedroWelcome to Jolla! But really, all the alternative non-Android devices are on this very forum...
However, it does contain parts that are made for Android, and this is out of necessity:
Because HW manufacturers like Qualcomm that makes the chipset that's ticking inside your Jolla will not create device drivers for Linux, a clever trick called libhybris is used to enable the Linux ( = SailfishOS in Jolla) to use the Android drivers.
This is unfortunate fact-of-life for us, almost all HW vendors think this way, they see only Android as a viable OS and will not create Linux drivers, not even when offered large sums of money to do it!
Originally Posted by javispedro
Again, no, not really
If you install the Android support then you will have two copies of Android. Right now you have only one, so at least it matters
@javispedro you have to stop frightening poor @pichlo!
If you install Android support (and If, as like Ihave not done that...) You will have only the upper layers of the Android stack running on your device, not the whole shebang.
Originally Posted by javispedro
It's doable, what is needed is just the new kernel hooks and interfacing to the existing (and open source BTW) libhybris functionality.
Well I'm sure it's not "impossible", just slightly difficult...
What it requires, of course is recompiled libraries and new kernel. That's the reason @rainisto says it is "impossible"; it is not something you could ever submit to Harbour
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2014-09-30
, 18:16
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Posts: 423 |
Thanked: 478 times |
Joined on Sep 2014
@ Netherlands
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#123
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Originally Posted by Kake41
So first update 9&10 get combined, but they now reverted that statement and only update 9 will come? Or were people in this topic confusing me about update 9&10 combined?
Not today...
https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/516953296888942592
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2014-09-30
, 18:40
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Posts: 1,548 |
Thanked: 7,510 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
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#124
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Originally Posted by juiceme
Sure that is indeed a cleaver and pretty much only possible way. But I'd like to point on one thing:
However, it does contain parts that are made for Android, and this is out of necessity:
Because HW manufacturers like Qualcomm that makes the chipset that's ticking inside your Jolla will not create device drivers for Linux, a clever trick called libhybris is used to enable the Linux ( = SailfishOS in Jolla) to use the Android drivers.
The Android drivers are still undocumented barely working binary blobs - and even with all the libhybris magic, they will still be as broken as when running Android as with Linux (Sailfish). Or even more so due to the possible slightly different requirements of Linux/Sailfish triggering less tested functionality, etc. And unfortunately as these are blobs, Jolla can't most probably do much about it other than bugging the blob-provider or working around the bugs (watchdogs, additional, wrappers, disabling functionality, etc.).
I think these buggy drivers might be the effectively unfixable root cause of some of these issues people report to be having with their Jollas.
Originally Posted by juiceme
As if Harbor acceptance was a major concern when developing for Sailfish.
It's doable, what is needed is just the new kernel hooks and interfacing to the existing (and open source BTW) libhybris functionality.
What it requires, of course is recompiled libraries and new kernel. That's the reason @rainisto says it is "impossible"; it is not something you could ever submit to Harbour
Thankfully Sailfish is not a walled garden and users have multiple options for getting software for their device, such as Open Repos, OBS, self hosted repos, direct package download or even building from source.Discounting a perfectly valid usecase just because the result "might not be in Harbour" is total nonsense! And who knows, Jolla might need to reconsider their Harbour policies if different extra-Harbour applications get even more popular than their already are.
__________________
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
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2014-09-30
, 18:42
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Posts: 7,074 |
Thanked: 9,069 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#125
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Thursday is the day. I've said it before and now I said it again.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
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2014-09-30
, 18:50
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Posts: 496 |
Thanked: 651 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ London
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#126
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Originally Posted by mariusmssj
I'd suggest that it is worse than disappointing. Jolla made a big thing about how the Android support on the phone was simply a filler whilst waiting for all the wonderful native apps (which they've then hindered by making it difficult to release software in the Jolla store because of the rules, and by still not having the ability to charge for apps). They then make a big thing about their partnerships - and then the first bit of software that supports one of those partnership is ... an Android app. And it took, what, 7 months to do that?
So it seems that Younited client for Jolla will be an android app. That's rather disappointing
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
And yet I suspect there will be those that somehow excuse this.
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2014-09-30
, 18:59
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Posts: 233 |
Thanked: 532 times |
Joined on Sep 2011
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#127
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I agree, if I want to run android apps, I buy an android phone full stop. Since I've reinstalled SailfisOS I have not bothered installing Android applications, they just devalue the phone.
Originally Posted by strongm
I'd suggest that it is worse than disappointing. Jolla made a big thing about how the Android support on the phone was simply a filler whilst waiting for all the wonderful native apps (which they've then hindered by making it difficult to release software in the Jolla store because of the rules, and by still not having the ability to charge for apps). They then make a big thing about their partnerships - and then the first bit of software that supports one of those partnership is ... an Android app. And it took, what, 7 months to do that?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
And yet I suspect there will be those that somehow excuse this.
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2014-09-30
, 19:43
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#128
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Originally Posted by juiceme
This is *perhaps* not entirely true. Meizu have their Ubuntu pre-loaded MX4, and Ubuntu ROM for existing MX4 users coming in December. It's possible that Mediatek has produced native drivers for Linux, rather than using their existing Android ones and running it through libhybris (which Ubuntu also uses). This is a very high volume device from a big OEM. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that drivers for the main SoC will be native (though I'm sure everything else will be Android).
Mmh, well not really. It is not so straightforward. @pichlo, You can be assured that the Jolla device is not Android, it is Linux: pure and simple.
However, it does contain parts that are made for Android, and this is out of necessity:
Because HW manufacturers like Qualcomm that makes the chipset that's ticking inside your Jolla will not create device drivers for Linux, a clever trick called libhybris is used to enable the Linux ( = SailfishOS in Jolla) to use the Android drivers.
This is unfortunate fact-of-life for us, almost all HW vendors think this way, they see only Android as a viable OS and will not create Linux drivers, not even when offered large sums of money to do it!
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2014-09-30
, 19:48
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Posts: 338 |
Thanked: 496 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#129
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Originally Posted by strongm
You also have to ask if it's even feasible for F-Secure to launch a native app currently. There are major under the hood OS updates in 1.09 and support for Qt 5.2, and as Jolla have chosen not to update SDKs prior to release of new updates, the SDK will be ~3 months old by the time it's updated (best case). There's no paid app support in the Jolla store (still) and complete silence on the issue, and there are still major strictures imposed on developers wanting apps in the Jolla store.
I'd suggest that it is worse than disappointing. Jolla made a big thing about how the Android support on the phone was simply a filler whilst waiting for all the wonderful native apps (which they've then hindered by making it difficult to release software in the Jolla store because of the rules, and by still not having the ability to charge for apps). They then make a big thing about their partnerships - and then the first bit of software that supports one of those partnership is ... an Android app. And it took, what, 7 months to do that?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
And yet I suspect there will be those that somehow excuse this.
Jolla seem to be very behind with Sailfish generally, and their 'monthly' updates have flown out of the window, with it now being 10 weeks since the last update.
Is this an ecosystem and situation you'd be diverting resources to, in order to build a native app?
Also, in before the 'partnership' with Rovio results in Angry Birds Android app in the Jolla store, whenever they finally add paid apps.
Last edited by bluefoot; 2014-09-30 at 19:51.
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2014-09-30
, 19:53
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#130
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Originally Posted by bluefoot
Well MediaTek != QualComm. (AFAIK MT is Taiwanese private comapny, while QC is commercial arm of US military intelligence development)
This is *perhaps* not entirely true. Meizu have their Ubuntu pre-loaded MX4, and Ubuntu ROM for existing MX4 users coming in December. It's possible that Mediatek has produced native drivers for Linux, rather than using their existing Android ones and running it through libhybris (which Ubuntu also uses). This is a very high volume device from a big OEM. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that drivers for the main SoC will be native (though I'm sure everything else will be Android).
And moreover, Meizu >> Jolla (when talking about cashflow for example...)
If you install the Android support then you will have two copies of Android. Right now you have only one, so at least it matters