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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2013-12-13 , 17:34
Posts: 7,074 | Thanked: 9,069 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#1641
Originally Posted by Nalim View Post
Today I've received 2x Jolla device (Czech Republic). I haven't expected anything special but to my surprise I am touched to tears how great these devices are. I almost feel they have their own soul. I'm an mobile device addict, currently I have several androids (samsung note3, sony z ultra, ...) but this is really something special. Am I alone with such a feeling?
Yes, Because mine is in shipping state and I'm using Gnote lll as main device AWS. Still don't believe jPhone can kick it to the dust. But your comment sounds nice, and you bought twice, witch to me is like rollin the dice.
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kinggo is offline kinggo
2013-12-13 , 17:36
Posts: 943 | Thanked: 3,228 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Zagreb
#1642
Originally Posted by herpderp View Post
This is not a satisfying answer to those users who are in those 1% (I would argue that their percentage is substantially higher than that).
No, it's not. But I would not argue about that 1%. On paper, maybe there is more than 1% who actually cares but in reality 99% of them uses some kind of cloud service. And I don't take seriously concerns about privacy and security from people who willingly use some kind of closed corporate protocolos.
 
Fuzzillogic is offline Fuzzillogic
2013-12-13 , 17:37
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#1643
Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Again. Atm we do not support mass storage. Only MTP. This is due to a huge number of technical issues with mass storage that are not easy to deal with/solve. Even android dropped mass-storage in favour of MTP.
Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Go back and read the whole reply please. All the reasons why were mentioned before, "everyone is moving away from it". Also mass-storage on N900 and N9 had a number of unresolved issues you might not have seen/or not always seen. Which is also a reason why it is not there now.
It seems to me that by "everyone" you mean Android, Apple and Microsoft. And those "everyone" doing/not doing something is not an argument that it is the right thing to do/not do: those companies most likely do stuff to gain or keep control over the devices, which usually is not in the interest of the user. Why do you think I didn't buy any of their devices, but a Jolla instead?

So, that leaves the "it's hard to do" as argument. It can't be harder than unmounting the sd card when the user removes it (I sure hope you don't need to turn off the devices to do so?!).
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2013-12-13 , 17:42
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#1644
Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Go back and read the whole reply please. All the reasons why were mentioned before, "everyone is moving away from it". Also mass-storage on N900 and N9 had a number of unresolved issues you might not have seen/or not always seen. Which is also a reason why it is not there now.
Mhm... I'm probably not reaching you because I was strongly arguing in favor of mass storage before.

My question is not so much "Why didn't you implement mass storage on the Jolla Phone?" That would be a silly question. Your phone, your cost, your priorities.

I understand you mention quite a few general technical difficulties, including problems that come from wrong handling. I also understand, though, that those difficulties never got in the way of implementing mass storage on any previous device based on Maemo/MeeGo back in the days. So I assume these difficulties were resolved in a way that made mass storage a good solution for the consumer - in spite of unresolved issues that you know of, but that never seemed to have troubled people.

My question, therefore, is: "What is the main difference between N900/N9 and earlier Nokia tablets and the Jolla Phone that made mass storage a viable option then, but kept you from implementing it now?" - I only want to understand why existing solutions to whatever problems that come with mass storage don't work any more. (At least that's the impression I get: That its too complex at this stage of the project to implement mass storage when MTP can cover at least some of its use cases.)

I'm sorry but even after re-reading all your posts, I didn't find the answer.
 

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minimos is offline minimos
2013-12-13 , 17:45
Posts: 646 | Thanked: 1,124 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ Espoo, Finland
#1645
Originally Posted by drcouzelis View Post
That's what I was thinking. What is the filesystem layout in Sailfish?
It's mainly btrfs:
Code:
[nemo@localhost /]$ cat /etc/fstab
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /  btrfs  defaults,autodefrag,noatime 0 0
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /home  btrfs  subvol=@home 0 0
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /swap  btrfs  subvol=@swap 0 0
devpts     /dev/pts  devpts  gid=5,mode=620   0 0
tmpfs      /dev/shm  tmpfs   defaults         0 0
proc       /proc     proc    defaults         0 0
sysfs      /sys      sysfs   defaults         0 0
but there are some 'auxiliary' fs formatted in ext4 or vfat:

Code:
[nemo@localhost /]$ mount
...
 /dev/mmcblk0p19 on /drm type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p18 on /firmware type vfat (ro,relatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0337,dmask=0227,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=lower,errors=remount-ro)
/dev/mmcblk0p25 on /persist type ext4 (ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p9 on /var/systemlog type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p28 on /home type btrfs (rw,relatime,thread_pool=4,ssd,noacl,space_cache,autodefrag)
/dev/mmcblk0p28 on /swap type btrfs (rw,relatime,thread_pool=4,ssd,noacl,space_cache,autodefrag)
...
 

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gerbick
2013-12-13 , 17:50
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#1646
I've seen FAT brought up a few times, but I wonder if Jolla is wise to avoid it since that's one of the Microsoft patents that they used against Android - though that might be finally coming to an end.

Just a random, unconfirmed thought.
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2013-12-13 , 17:57
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#1647
Originally Posted by minimos View Post
/home btrfs
Thank you!
 
Dave999's Avatar
Dave999 is offline Dave999
2013-12-13 , 18:12
Posts: 7,074 | Thanked: 9,069 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#1648
Anyone with a Iphone 5 or a galaxy note 3 that can compare browsers. How much slower is jolla browser?
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Philippe is offline Philippe
2013-12-13 , 18:18
Posts: 46 | Thanked: 285 times | Joined on Dec 2005
#1649
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
My question, therefore, is: "What is the main difference between N900/N9 and earlier Nokia tablets and the Jolla Phone that made mass storage a viable option then, but kept you from implementing it now?" - I only want to understand why existing solutions to whatever problems that come with mass storage don't work any more. (At least that's the impression I get: That its too complex at this stage of the project to implement mass storage when MTP can cover at least some of its use cases.)

I'm sorry but even after re-reading all your posts, I didn't find the answer.
Well it seems you are not reading enough.

It needs a FAT partition (which was done on N900 and N9), which fragments storage on the device. Issues with file permissions and security, back-ups, restoring to factory settings etc... The current btrfs layout gives us huge benefits there that would not be possible if we needed to have some rogue FAT partition.
It needs to unmount/remount it every time mass-storage is enabled. This means every application that might need to handle data on that partition needs to be able to deal with it disappearing. That is a huge job.
Just try to take pictures with mass-storage enabled in N9, will just not work for example. Although that is a minor annoyance. It is an example of what can happen. More evil things happen also.
It also meant killing apps in the background to enable it, which could cause data loss. It also meant sometimes it could not be enabled depending on what applications are open. Not to mention data loss issues/crashes with applications that don't handle it, 3rd party application not knowing what to do when the fs disappears. Not to mention all the data loss issues that exist with mass-storage currently. You know the remove safely button in windows?

A number where never solved for the N900/N9 but it shipped nonetheless since there was not really a better alternative at the time.

And although MTP has its own set of issues it actually covers the same use case.

We might have some mass-storage exports in a later stage as I stated (like for the SD card) however we cannot guarantee file exchange functionality on the same level as with MTP.

But bitching about missing mass storage because Apple cannot keep breaking industry standards because it wants to push its own vendor lock in is not productive and is not going to get you anywhere. Don't shoot the messenger.
 

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szopin is offline szopin
2013-12-13 , 18:28
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#1650
Not sure how someone can claim N900 had this sorted, search for read only file system in here, lots and lots of posts/threads
 

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