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2011-02-27
, 22:04
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#173
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Originally Posted by mishmich
If you want me to defend Gates or Microsoft, you're either on some serious meds and/or meth. I won't ever do that. Microsoft ripped off a lot of folks to get where they're at now.
Did Jobs pay for the linux stuff he used in developing NeXT and OSX?
Did Gates pay off Lotus 123 or SuperCalc for Excel?
Did Gates pay Sybase for MS.SQL?
Did Gates pay Novell for the networking stack in Windows NT?
Did Gates pay WordPerfect, IBM or WordStar for Word?
Did Gates pay Harvard Graphics for PowerPoint?
Did Jobs pay Xerox Park when Apple brought out the Mac?
Did Gates pay Apple when they brought out Windows?
And look who just got into bed with them... Nokia.
When it is corporate and proprietary, it is called IP, even if the idea was pinched. When it is Open Source, it is called something else. The main difference is the funds available to pursue aggressive litigation that enforces acknowledgement of IP.
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2011-02-28
, 01:53
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Posts: 963 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Connecticut, USA
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#174
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I will not disagree with this. Unfortunately, the way things are today, selfishness is a virtue. I look forward to a world in which we all cooperate together instead of compete with one another. But for that to happen we are going to need help from above because I don't believe we have it in us to accomplish that by ourselves. Still, I can't get myself to become sympathetic to the ones that are part of what is wrong with this world.
While that may be true; if a company knows that they're being pirated - Apple, Adobe, Windows inclusive - they're gonna have the stance of "Fine. Sooner than later, they will pay."
Adobe's Warnock has stated as much about Photoshop - 1 million or so licenses, way more than that out there. Sure, people could use GIMP, some shops have switched almost wholesale to that if they don't do print.
Originally Posted by gerbick
Absolutely.
But as it stands, it's a difference of mentality that people are arguing about when they talk about Windows, its ecosystem, and Linux and its ecosystem.
Originally Posted by gerbick
Actually, with free software, if I need help with one program I have the option of looking for help someplace other than from where it originates. That is the beauty of it. Of course, that help may not be free, but at least I can always be guaranteed to have a way to keep a product alive.
It's not about being dependent on any thing; if you need help with Fedora, you might have to pay Red Hat. If you need help with Maemo, you might have to wait for Nokia or this community to help you. If you need help with Microsoft products, you might have to pay for that.
Look at what is happening right now with the free parts of Maemo. We are now back to getting regular updates thanks to someone in the community that decided to pick it up. So far he is refusing payments, but if the community, or an individual person of company desires to do so someone could be hired to do the same. You can't do that with a closed source product that the originator has decided to kill or stop maintaining for some reason.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I agree, but as mentioned above, one at least has the option of looking for a third party to pick up the slack. Not so with a closed source product.
In all instances, you are dependent upon something other than yourself if it is out of your scope of ability and/or expertise. To say otherwise is true folly.
Originally Posted by gerbick
And there are lots of knowledgeable people willing to offer a hand for a price as well.
Linux is a free way to get a lot done. When you need very specific help, it sometimes sucks that there isn't a centralized place for help - but there's a lot of good natured folks that know a hell of a lot more than I.
Originally Posted by gerbick
Noble intentions. Unfortunately, I am sure you were never given access to the code and given the opportunity to fix the bugs you might have found. Right? As an MSCE you were thought how to click your way into the implemented features and exposed interfaces, but not into the hidden APIs, code hacks, and plain old error codes that may lie beneath.
And Microsoft is so damn full of bugs, the centralized place for help became a necessity - and something of a crutch... still wasn't enough so I became a MCSE to resolve my own probs and be able to help others.
Originally Posted by gerbick
This is a profound statement that, frankly took me aback. I agree that they are both symptomatic of a lot of what is wrong in the world today. We could take it even further and argue that all phones, gadgets, and computers in general are evil due to the harm that is being done to the earth and humanity by producing them.
But as it stands, both directions (FOSS vs. closed source) end up feeding our addiction to gadgets, computers and Internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6L7hAx7NaM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU
It is sad to think of the unimaginable fortunes that have been amassed by corporation executives and share holders who have benefited from the work of the lowly workers of the world without adequately compensating them. That is just wrong. The injustices and mismanagement of the Earth are certainly coming to a climax. Serious issues for sure. Everyone would do well to meditate on them and see how much a part of it we are and how will we be able to justify our conduct as individuals to future generations. Certainly, as a collective, there is no justification.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I don't know what intentions they had. It seems to me that Linus looks quite honest when he says he was "just having fun". The fact that he chose to license his kernel with the GPL may have just been opportunist though. I agree with that. And Gates is just a product of the capitalistic culture, with all its ugly warts and thorns. They are both geniuses at what they do. They both produced tools that can be tremendously helpful and that can be used for evil or twisted purposes. It is up to each one of use to decide which one to use. It is up to each one of us to decide what we do with them.
What Linus had in mind was basically the same as what Gates had in mind... a simple way to use a pile of silicon to make life a bit easier. Gates went about it in a very "buy out your competition" manner whereas Linux became a community way to avoid being what Microsoft had become - full of bugs, license unfriendly and ultimately something that was used to go into corporations almost like a trojan and build dependency.
But in the long-term, they both serve our needs and addictions.
__________________
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-- Worse than not knowing is not wanting to know! --
http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/
Last edited by rm42; 2011-02-28 at 02:03.
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2011-02-28
, 03:14
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#175
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Originally Posted by rm42
I actually used to go to the alt.microsoft.<insert product name here> news groups as well as hit up places like SQL Team, 15Seconds.com and other sites as well as bother the ever-living **** out of Microsoft's BizTalk and (beta) .NET teams. They knew me on a first name basis.
Actually, with free software, if I need help with one program I have the option of looking for help someplace other than from where it originates. That is the beauty of it. Of course, that help may not be free, but at least I can always be guaranteed to have a way to keep a product alive.
And they helped me. In the closed source world, you worked around the limitations - much like Qwerty12 worked around the closed bits in Maemo 5. You're not 100% free from having closed source bits affect you.
But I get what you're going for and I agree.
Look at what is happening right now with the free parts of Maemo. We are now back to getting regular updates thanks to someone in the community that decided to pick it up. So far he is refusing payments, but if the community, or an individual person of company desires to do so someone could be hired to do the same. You can't do that with a closed source product that the originator has decided to kill or stop maintaining for some reason.
I hope that Nokia continues to support it, then that's fine. But the moment that something goes wrong with the BME, then it's work around city.
Unfortunately, I am sure you were never given access to the code and given the opportunity to fix the bugs you might have found. Right? As an MSCE you were thought how to click your way into the implemented features and exposed interfaces, but not into the hidden APIs, code hacks, and plain old error codes that may lie beneath.
I've seen it both ways in open source with closed bits or closed source with... ok, closed (every)bits too.
Thanks for regarding that comment as profound - didn't intend for it to be. But in the end of the day, they're (to me) serving a rather self-serving addiction of the aforesaid categories. Whether or not it's bad, evil, good or wholesome, I'll leave that up to the person that's using it and want to categorize it.
I just use the tools to support my livelihood or my addictions.
Hello... my name is gerbick and I'm a gadget-aholic.
Awesome chatting with you.
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2011-02-28
, 03:15
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#176
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Why dont you both just wait untill they bring out the first whatever it is they bring out because the speculation is going a bit wild now, i mean drug lords are now in the forefront lmao how crazy does this get?.
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2011-02-28
, 03:17
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#177
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Originally Posted by rm42
If your going to "discuss" at least make it sain !!!.
The point is that whether you have a life outside this forum or not is completely irrelevant. Besides, claiming to be the only one with a life just makes appear even less objective. You'd be surprised of the intense life many people here have outside this forum.
This particular thread has to do with what the future of Nokia Windows Phones is likely to be. Many of us felt like discussing this subject for one reason or another. If you don't have anything intelligent to add to the discussion then you are better off being quiet. Better yet, go and do something that really interests you.
PS: Sorry it took me so long to respond. I had other more pressing things to do.
Nothing intellingent going on here so nothing intelligent to add !!!.
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2011-02-28
, 03:19
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#178
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Originally Posted by gerbick
HAHA now THIS i fully agree with !!! well done gerby.
If you want me to defend Gates or Microsoft, you're either on some serious meds and/or meth. I won't ever do that. Microsoft ripped off a lot of folks to get where they're at now.
And look who just got into bed with them... Nokia.
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2011-02-28
, 05:59
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Posts: 248 |
Thanked: 191 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ New Zealand
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#179
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Sane is the word, as opposed to insane.
If your going to "discuss" at least make it sain !!!.
Nothing intellingent going on here so nothing intelligent to add !!!.
M.
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2011-02-28
, 06:05
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#180
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I guess the only good thing about Windows is the hackability side of it so if Nokia want their phones to be hacked to pieces then they are certainly going the right direction.
Come to think of it i never had a problem in Windows that did not have a work around so bring it on Nokia bring it on !!!.
Come to think of it i never had a problem in Windows that did not have a work around so bring it on Nokia bring it on !!!.
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| bada rox, give me bada, meego rules, sir abill sir !, windowsce blows |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 22:04.
Did Gates pay off Lotus 123 or SuperCalc for Excel?
Did Gates pay Sybase for MS.SQL?
Did Gates pay Novell for the networking stack in Windows NT?
Did Gates pay WordPerfect, IBM or WordStar for Word?
Did Gates pay Harvard Graphics for PowerPoint?
Did Jobs pay Xerox Park when Apple brought out the Mac?
Did Gates pay Apple when they brought out Windows?
At least Jobs managed to pull Apple back from that.
When it is corporate and proprietary, it is called IP, even if the idea was pinched. When it is Open Source, it is called something else. The main difference is the funds available to pursue aggressive litigation that enforces acknowledgement of IP.
Mish.