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Poll: Which NFP name(s) do you prefer?
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Which NFP name(s) do you prefer?

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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2012-09-24 , 21:11
Posts: 1,455 | Thanked: 3,309 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY
#181
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
I asked several times if there could be any sort of leeway, as even if I had started the poll after a wk of feedback, we didn't know what sort of trend would arise, and how long the poll may need etc.
And I said more than once that the 17th would be the end of the line, time frame wise. FYI: The central piece of info you noted was talked about several times, including in two separate Council meetings, as someone at the meeting asked that exact question.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Does that mean we can now take our time & add some extra names, because some users have already expressed annoyance that none of the candidates are suitable.
Suitable for whom? Others have liked some of the other names proposed, but the number of people "annoyed" by the Hildon name, to my knowledge right now, is two. One is you, and as I recall there was one other in this thread that dislike it.

As for adding names, that will be for the next Board to decide on. As custodians (until the 12th) I don't see using funds to add a DBA as an appropriate use, since we still don't even know how much funding we'll have, and what we'll need to keep the lights on yet.

As for other groups having the same name: Often the only time this is a conflict is when one goes after the other for using their name. Legally the challenge has to be made, and upheld in court, that a reasonable person could confuse the two groups or think one is a sponsor of, or endorsement of the other. For example the Apple Record company going after Apple Computer over the bitten-apple logo. In this case, since the other "Hildon Foundation" is a municipal water company, I don't think it's going to be an issue.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Many questions where asked from that point for clarification, zilch.
So from that point on I remained in limbo as to what to do, as I could never get any straight answer.
You asked questions here, and in PMs, and we did reply to most of them. Some of them we had to consult others on, since frankly some things were items we did not know. (I, for example, was unsure if NFP groups could file a DBA.) Plus, frankly, we were a little busy with 8,000 other things, like trying to create a legal entity, get the CC elections underway, and get things setup for the next election. And frankly, given the importance of those items, vs a discussion about naming, they won.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Oh please, I'm not intensely following every single iota of community progress over the past 6mth or even 3mth, that's why you're a Councillor & I'm not.
Nobody is asking you to follow ever detail. But would it kill to read a 15 line summary once a week? Nobody is demanding you take part in every discussion or read every detail. Just browsing at the weekly summary, 30 seconds of reading (60 for non-native readers maybe) would keep you up to speed on what's going on.

And before you say you don't have time for it: It took you longer to read this reply than it would have for you to read the summary of the last meeting.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
That's just it, I very well did, I was well aware of what was happening in theory, I was simply trying the whole time to get some feedback on whether things could be modified somewhat, as we clearly were going to be too pressed for time.
The problem wasn't that you weren't being answered. You already acknowledged that we stated (once to you directly in the other thread) that the cut-off date was quickly approaching. And on the name-change topic, I told you earlier that names were not that important. (Remember by analogy about arguing the color of the light bulb while an electrician is outside turning off the power?)

The end result of all of this is that this has been in the work for several months. Your "annoyance" at the name popped up in the last week or two before things had to be finalized, when things more important and far more permanent, were happening.

Would it have been great to have a poll for the name 3 months ago? Sure. Initially we were going with Maemo Community until that was shot down by Quim over trademark issues. It was discussed in Council meetings, and put into the first draft of the bylaws months ago though, and nobody complained, until a couple weeks ago.

Frankly, the name is really not at all significant. It will be used in a few legal agreements, and that's about it. We've spent hours here, over something that will be used probably about 30 times in the next 3 years, by a dozen people or so at most.

Meanwhile, of all the people commenting here, only a couple have bothered to even read the bylaws, and comment on them. You know, the thing providing structure, governance and the mission of this foundation? Tell me: Which is more important? The name of a group, or the structure and mission of the group?

Now you'll excuse me... I have to go see about twisting some arms to run for Council, as the deadline on that is coming up this Friday, and we have to date 0 candidates. You remember Council, right? The group doing all this work to keep things going, while others sit around criticizing them for doing what they were voted in to do...
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Maemo Council Member: May 2012 - November 2012
Hildon Foundation founding member.
Hildon Foundation Board of Directors: March 2013 - Jan 15, 2014
 

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misterc is offline misterc
2012-09-24 , 22:21
Posts: 1,625 | Thanked: 998 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#182
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
Let me make sure we're talking about the same things:
[...]
think about it...
they are still selling N9s
and they will stop supporting them in 3 months?
?

Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
I'm hoping we'll know more about all of this very soon. But right now, what we do know we're happy to share. What we don't we'll be sure to ask about.
appreciate your hard word!
__________________
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
 

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jalyst is offline jalyst
2012-09-25 , 05:54
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#183
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
And I said more than once that the 17th would be the end of the line, time frame wise. FYI: The central piece of info you noted was talked about several times, including in two separate Council meetings, as someone at the meeting asked that exact question.
Right & my point was I'm not nearly as involved in the community to that extent, I did however ask here & via pm's many times, no answer, & there was at least one Councillor actively following.

Suitable for whom? Others have liked some of the other names proposed, but the number of people "annoyed" by the Hildon name, to my knowledge right now, is two. One is you, and as I recall there was one other in this thread that dislike it.
Um I'm referring to ALL the names, read the thread, users have expressed annoyance for all the names listed.
And that's a total mis-characterization, there's been many throughout the course of this thread who've expressed interest for names other than Hildon, peppered with the odd person who's explicitly expressed a dislike for it (& a preference for theirs), & I'm not one of them.

As for adding names, that will be for the next Board to decide on. As custodians (until the 12th) I don't see using funds to add a DBA as an appropriate use, since we still don't even know how much funding we'll have, and what we'll need to keep the lights on yet.
No I wasn't referring to the DBA, I was referring to adding more names to this Poll. Which would mean stopping the current one (I think?) and starting over.
Then if the next Board decide it's fine to proceed w/a consensus name (no more rushing, Poll can run for several mth etc) we can add extra names to the new one, & maybe remove some if there's too much legal concern.
But TBH I'm over it all long ago, as pointed out many times now, it's really quite a superficial thing. Do others still care? I don't know, maybe quite a few still would.
Perhaps it's best that the next council/BoD get the message out to as wide an audience as possible, that the NFP's already registered under X name, but that it wasn't chosen in the most ideal community consensus fashion, & if they so chose, the council can proceed w/a representative selection process (ofc explain the trivialities of the NFP name as part of that).

As for other groups having the same name: Often the only time this is a conflict is when one goes after the other for using their name. Legally the challenge has to be made, and upheld in court, that a reasonable person could confuse the two groups or think one is a sponsor of, or endorsement of the other. For example the Apple Record company going after Apple Computer over the bitten-apple logo. In this case, since the other "Hildon Foundation" is a municipal water company, I don't think it's going to be an issue.
Cool, was just cited by one of the councilors here as a reason why other names had to be ruled out immediately, was curious as-to-whether the same logic was going to be applied to the name in use.
I always thought something along these lines would in-fact be the reality...

You asked questions here, and in PMs, and we did reply to most of them.<SNIP>
Not even most unfortunately, but it's all done & dusted now...

Nobody is asking you to follow ever detail. But would it kill to read a 15 line summary once a week? Nobody is demanding you take part in every discussion or read every detail. Just browsing at the weekly summary, 30 seconds of reading (60 for non-native readers maybe) would keep you up to speed on what's going on.
I will endeavor to do that, I'm about to drop off maemo.org totally (already been quite light for several mths) for quite a few mths though, so doubt I'll be able to.

The problem wasn't that you weren't being answered. You already acknowledged that we stated (once to you directly in the other thread) that the cut-off date was quickly approaching.
Seems you still missed my point, it was at least part of the problem, but I'm well over it now...

And on the name-change topic, I told you earlier that names were not that important. (Remember by analogy about arguing the color of the light bulb while an electrician is outside turning off the power?)
Oh I totally get that, that's cool....

Would it have been great to have a poll for the name 3 months ago? Sure. Initially we were going with Maemo Community until that was shot down by Quim over trademark issues. It was discussed in Council meetings, and put into the first draft of the bylaws months ago though, and nobody complained, until a couple weeks ago.
Thank-you for the concession, easy in hindsight of course...
The current by-laws thread 1st started a mth+ ago not 2wks, that's when I 1st noted the NFP name being used, even then it was getting a bit too late of course, given the deadline.

Frankly, the name is really not at all significant. It will be used in a few legal agreements, and that's about it. We've spent hours here, over something that will be used probably about 30 times in the next 3 years, by a dozen people or so at most.
Exact (or very close) figures? I knew it would be superficial, but didn't think it'd be as light as that.

Meanwhile, of all the people commenting here, only a couple have bothered to even read the bylaws, and comment on them. You know, the thing providing structure, governance and the mission of this foundation? Tell me: Which is more important? The name of a group, or the structure and mission of the group?
I did comment on the by-laws quite a bit, & still plan to add some more input, time permitting...

You remember Council, right? The group doing all this work to keep things going, while others sit around criticizing them for doing what they were voted in to do...
C'mon now low-blow, you need to re-read my last few posts, they haven't been totally antagonistic, often conciliatory in parts, & acknowledging.
I don't make a habit of reacting the way I did several posts back, I defy you to find many other eg's in my posting history, it didn't come from nowhere.

N.B.
I'm removing email notifications for this thread & all others, except for maybe 1-2 (probably just Maemo elections & by-laws).
If anyone wants me to update the OP (even if it's somewhat redundant ATM), feel free to shoot me a PM & I'll do so.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-09-25 at 08:59. Reason: typo & update
 

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